America's Unwinnable War
This report is a political opinion.
"As he walked out of the house, he asked me to wish him good luck," she said. "I wished him good luck and I knew of his decision to become a martyr. Although I was aware of his intention, I did not know exactly when he was planning to carry out a martyrdom attack."
“I pray to Allah that Muhammed will be accepted as a shaheed. I hope that his martyrdom will deliver a message to the Fatah and Hamas fighters to stop the fighting and direct their weapons against the one and only enemy - Israel."
These are the words of a mother.
A mother who believed fully that the actions of her son, suicide bomber Muhammed Faisal Saksak, were acceptable and that his actions deserving of martyrdom.
These are the words of a mother who kissed her son good bye, knew he was leaving his home and was on a mission to kill others and she was proud to watch him go.
Her son carried a backpack loaded with explosives into an Israeli bakery and detonated the explosives. He blew up the owners of the bakery and one employee as well as himself.
Izzedine al-Masri was 23 years old when he walked into a crowded restaurant and detonated a guitar case filled with explosives laced with nails and shrapnel. 15 people died and 130 people were injured.
Izzadine al-Masri's brother later said: “This is a unique operation for its quality and success... Palestinians everywhere can now hold up their heads.”
19 men boarded airplanes on September 11, 2001. They had trained for years in secrecy for an event that would change the United States forever. Over 3,000 people perished and those that survived forever see the emotionless faces of those who boarded the planes for their fatal mission. To them they sought martyrdom, to us, they were murderers.
As a mother, I cringe at the thought of any of my children ever being a part of such a mission and my heart breaks when I hear the story of the family so damaged in these seemingly horrific acts of violence.
A Dutch survivor of Auschwitz lost her son, his wife, and three of their children in the guitar explosion carried out by Izzadine al-Masri. The woman who placed her family in the ground said: “I vowed to rebuild my family after the war, and that is what I did. Now for my family, Arafat has finished what Hitler started.”
What American mother would not cry for the families destroyed by these acts of violence? Who could fathom such horrible acts of vengeance and carnage? What we Americans mothers and fathers would see as a horrific act of terrorism and a tragedy beyond comprehension, another may view as an act of complete selflessness.
These stories are not few and far between. The Middle East has experienced the horrors of terrorism for years, and the Middle East is riddled with young men and women who accept the mission with a sense of tranquility. A removal of emotional attachment allows for someone to blank out emotion, not see children and mothers and fathers...just enemies. The acceptance of fate and the submission to Allah is their calling. The families of these men and women only look at their sons and daughters, brothers and sisters who carry out these acts in admiration.
They have made their families proud in their missions and they scare us to death.
This mentality is why we do not belong in Iraq and Afghanistan and soon Pakistan. We are a much different breed. A few of us may still congregate, but our faith as a nation “in God” is not on any level playing field with those who would send their children to their death for their God, Allah.
When American soldiers come home, we weep. When a suicide bomber succeeds, the family cheers.
American have evolved into a race of people who see people and civility and who view casualties (of anyone) as horrible and unnecessary ramifications of war. In general, we see honor in love and not in hate. Yet, to the Middle East, we are often viewed as evil, as self – righteous and as hateful. They sacrifice much differently than we do. To the soldiers (martyrs) who strapped 15 kilograms of explosives to their chests we are all the enemy and our deaths are not emotional they are emotionless.
We cannot fight these wars and we cannot change the religious ideology of these countries. Nor, I would conclude, should we try. We seem to be unwilling as a nation to accept that we cannot force our views on countries that are not accepting of us and because we are not wanted, we will never find peace in this region of the world through force. We are different and we see the world differently.
Americans want to believe (or have the right to not believe) that we will go to Heaven regardless of our sins as long as in the hour of our death, we repent. We want to believe that people are inherently good and that acts of aggression and extremism will not happen on our soil and we would mourn forever if our son were to walk out of our home one morning, walk down to the local bakery and blow himself up along with every person in the bakery. We would not be happy, we could not accept or understand the act, because as Americans, it is not what we are.
It is not my place to judge my fellow man. We are all on this Earth to live our lives in a manner consistent with our beliefs. Our beliefs are much different from the beliefs of the Middle East who still struggles with independence, freedoms, land rights and so much that we as Americans take for granted each day. We do not fight for a religious purpose, and that is a very different perspective than the perspective of the Middle East where religion governs much of their existence.
We cannot wage a war in the Middle East that will ever yield a positive outcome. We have no idea of what we are fighting for and they do, and there is no equality in that. We cannot win, we will not even come close, and for every victory we claim to achieve, it is not sustainable because you cannot succeed at change through force when the change you are trying to force is a different perception of humanity.
It is a guerrilla war in the Middle East that we are involved in and just as England lost to us in the American Revolution because we engaged in tactics the Brits could not comprehend or accept – we will continue to loose the children we send to war in the Middle East.
There is no winner in a religious war. The Middle East "conflict" is a religious war. We do not belong there.
Bring the troops home.
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READ MORE: United States, afghanistan, pakistan, middle east, iraq, suicide bombing, september 11th, 9/11, Izzadine al-Masri, Muhammed Faisal Saksak, israel, religion
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Post a Comment Comments: 31
Ah... they blow up so quickly... what's a mother to do?
A cynical statement, yes, but really what are our own American mothers to do?
I think Steve Earle put it beautifully when he wrote:
"Bobby had an eagle and a flag tattooed on his arm
Red white and blue to the bone when he landed in Kandahar
Left behind a pretty young wife and a baby girl
A stack of overdue bills and went off to save the world
Been a year now and he’s still there
Chasin’ ghosts in the thin dry air
Meanwhile back at home the finance company took his car
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war"
"Ali was the second son of a second son
Grew up in Gaza throwing bottles and rocks when the tanks would come
Ain’t nothin’ else to do around here just a game children play
Somethin’ ‘bout livin’ in fear all your life makes you hard that way
He answered when he got the call
Wrapped himself in death and praised Allah
A fat man in a new Mercedes drove him to the door
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war"
*excerpts from "Rich Man's War" by Steve Earle
This article is, as usual, spot on the money; we've accomplished all that we can hope or expect to accomplish in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nation building should never have been in our plans for either country. It's time for those directly involved to take the reins and the responsibility for their destiny. We have no more sons and daughters to give to this madness.
A cynical statement, yes, but really what are our own American mothers to do?
I think Steve Earle put it beautifully when he wrote:
"Bobby had an eagle and a flag tattooed on his arm
Red white and blue to the bone when he landed in Kandahar
Left behind a pretty young wife and a baby girl
A stack of overdue bills and went off to save the world
Been a year now and he’s still there
Chasin’ ghosts in the thin dry air
Meanwhile back at home the finance company took his car
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war"
"Ali was the second son of a second son
Grew up in Gaza throwing bottles and rocks when the tanks would come
Ain’t nothin’ else to do around here just a game children play
Somethin’ ‘bout livin’ in fear all your life makes you hard that way
He answered when he got the call
Wrapped himself in death and praised Allah
A fat man in a new Mercedes drove him to the door
Just another poor boy off to fight a rich man’s war"
*excerpts from "Rich Man's War" by Steve Earle
This article is, as usual, spot on the money; we've accomplished all that we can hope or expect to accomplish in Iraq and Afghanistan. Nation building should never have been in our plans for either country. It's time for those directly involved to take the reins and the responsibility for their destiny. We have no more sons and daughters to give to this madness.
Thanks for the comment Firesisle. "We have no more sons and daughters to give to this madness."
Well said...
Well said...
Bin Laden himself said we could never defeat them because we love life and they love death.
Bin Laden himself said we could never defeat them because we love life and they love death.
We defeat Bin Laden by refusing to be afraid, or make radical changes to our lifestyle in response to terrorism. I defeat him and others like him every day, as do many other Americans.
Iraq and Afghanistan aren't about victory or defeat, but rather the cost of nation building and grandiose, arrogant visions of cultural retooling. We win the battles, but we lose the war...
Iraq and Afghanistan aren't about victory or defeat, but rather the cost of nation building and grandiose, arrogant visions of cultural retooling. We win the battles, but we lose the war...
But we did make radical changes, especially in the way the government looks at individual rights.
Changes which need to be repealed; the only way to defeat terror is to refuse to be afraid.
Unfortunately, it's apparent that Obama endorses the same unconstitutional attitude, since he hasn't made any moves to change them.
Unfortunately, it's apparent that Obama endorses the same unconstitutional attitude, since he hasn't made any moves to change them.
I am not so sure that's true - Women are still severely repressed in that area of the world - especially in smaller tribal areas.
I was in Phoenix today and browsing magazines at the airport there as I waited on my flight. I can't remember where I read it, but I saw that there is some speculation that certain generals are trying to box Obama in on Afghanistan so that no matter what he does, Gen. Petraeus can run for the GOP nomination on the grounds that Obama lost or is losing Afghanistan. If true, that is disgusting.
I agree with Write4Life and firesisle - bring the troops home.
I agree with Write4Life and firesisle - bring the troops home.
I think we can win this. Sooner or later they are bound to blow themselves all to hell then we won't have a problem.
Unbelievable. Everyone has a right to their opinion...but the statement you make with this article epitomises what has become of a once proud Nation. A Nation and a people who had, at one time, never been afraid to defend it's ideals and principals, anywhere or at any time; particularly when threatened.
I will agree with you, somewhat, on one important point. We may indeed never be able to claim real victory in any theater, if we continue to fight a vicious enemy with rubber bullets and half the country tied behind our back. Americans were once very proud to make the true claim that when engaged in armed conflict, we are relentless, albeit reluctantly. That this war has been waged in the feeble manner that it has is an abomonation and an embarrasment to true Americans. Contrary to what you write, we needn't give up; we just need to accept that this IS a winnable war ONLY if we do what Americans had always done....up until about 40 years ago, that is. Drop the hammer, and every other peice of ordinance we can airlift or sail into the theater. Should've been done that way since day one. If so, this would have been over long ago.
But no. We can't do that in this day and age, can we? No. It's so much more important for us to understand what it was WE did to provoke the muslim world into lashing out at us so violently. I guess you think we had it coming, too. How sad, and infuriating that is. Maybe you should ponder the possibility that evil does indeed exist in this world, and that we (America) are not it. On the contrary, the USA has been a beacon of freedom and charity throughout the world since the day we were founded. If not for us, then who would have liberated the supressed, freed the imprisoned and fed the hungry? Who? If you have an answer, I'd love to hear it. And how have we maintained the ability to do these things down through our history? We have done it by creaating the most prosperous society in the history of mankind, and by proving that we would always defend it with the most powerful, best equipped, professionaly trained and dedicated armed forces to ever roam the globe.
So what would you have us do now? Obtain 300 million signatures on an engraved apology to the decendants of King George? Exchange the Stars and Stripes for a Union Jack? That's what you are saying when you call upon America to betray one of the most important principals on which it was founded; namely the RESPONSIBILTY to defend not only ourselves and our allies, but all who are unable to defend themselves from the sort of murderous tyranny under which they suffer everyday in many locations around the world, especially the middle east. And WHY? Because we are afraid that we cannot go toe to toe with an enemy who is not afraid to die, and many whom are eager to do so? Let me remind you, my friend that the vast majority of our own brave men and women (though certainly not eager to perish in a foriegn land) are just as dedicated to their own task. Is it your assertion that their selfless devotion is inferior to that of their/our foe? That is a statment that taps the line of traitorous in my mind.
We were attacked. I was in NY that day. I haven't forgotten, nor will I ever. No one should. Our response should have been swift and overwhelmingly ruthless. Our commitment needed to be TOTAL. If it had been so, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead, it was slow and politically meager. So concerned were we with "collateral damage" and offending the "muslim street" that we have been rsponsible for much more death, destruction and financial ruin than should ever have been obtained. There would still be hope, though, were it not for the frightening fact that the current crop of career minded power hungry fools in DC now, are even more spineless and politically expedient than the last; and by a huge and dangerous margin.
Do you really believe that retreating from the front now would bring about an end to the "hosility?" I know that is exactly what Hollywood and the marxist media would love for you to believe. Anyone who does is not only naive in the extreme, but is also a detriment to the pepetuation of the American experience altogether. If you think for one second that a withdrawl from the field now would provoke the enemy to cease it's efforts against us and our allies, I have a bridge I'd like to seel you. Have you seen what these people (animals, really) teach their children? Not just at home, but in state run schools? There is plenty of visual records of this sort of thing, and a plethora of documentation all over the web and elsewhere to detail not only the teachings but it's rapidly growing popularity.
We are not the only society on the planet that truly believes that our children are the future. The enemy knows it, too. If we do not destroy them now, who will? If we do not erradicate this murderous ideology now, what will you tell your children and grand children 20 or 30 years from now, when the next generation of suicide bombers are as prevelant as the street lights in New York City?
These are brutal people and the must be eliminated brutally. If they are not, then you overall thesis will be proven correct. The only problem is, by then, there just might not be many Americans left to regret their parents inaction.
PEACE....to all who would reciprocate it.
I will agree with you, somewhat, on one important point. We may indeed never be able to claim real victory in any theater, if we continue to fight a vicious enemy with rubber bullets and half the country tied behind our back. Americans were once very proud to make the true claim that when engaged in armed conflict, we are relentless, albeit reluctantly. That this war has been waged in the feeble manner that it has is an abomonation and an embarrasment to true Americans. Contrary to what you write, we needn't give up; we just need to accept that this IS a winnable war ONLY if we do what Americans had always done....up until about 40 years ago, that is. Drop the hammer, and every other peice of ordinance we can airlift or sail into the theater. Should've been done that way since day one. If so, this would have been over long ago.
But no. We can't do that in this day and age, can we? No. It's so much more important for us to understand what it was WE did to provoke the muslim world into lashing out at us so violently. I guess you think we had it coming, too. How sad, and infuriating that is. Maybe you should ponder the possibility that evil does indeed exist in this world, and that we (America) are not it. On the contrary, the USA has been a beacon of freedom and charity throughout the world since the day we were founded. If not for us, then who would have liberated the supressed, freed the imprisoned and fed the hungry? Who? If you have an answer, I'd love to hear it. And how have we maintained the ability to do these things down through our history? We have done it by creaating the most prosperous society in the history of mankind, and by proving that we would always defend it with the most powerful, best equipped, professionaly trained and dedicated armed forces to ever roam the globe.
So what would you have us do now? Obtain 300 million signatures on an engraved apology to the decendants of King George? Exchange the Stars and Stripes for a Union Jack? That's what you are saying when you call upon America to betray one of the most important principals on which it was founded; namely the RESPONSIBILTY to defend not only ourselves and our allies, but all who are unable to defend themselves from the sort of murderous tyranny under which they suffer everyday in many locations around the world, especially the middle east. And WHY? Because we are afraid that we cannot go toe to toe with an enemy who is not afraid to die, and many whom are eager to do so? Let me remind you, my friend that the vast majority of our own brave men and women (though certainly not eager to perish in a foriegn land) are just as dedicated to their own task. Is it your assertion that their selfless devotion is inferior to that of their/our foe? That is a statment that taps the line of traitorous in my mind.
We were attacked. I was in NY that day. I haven't forgotten, nor will I ever. No one should. Our response should have been swift and overwhelmingly ruthless. Our commitment needed to be TOTAL. If it had been so, we wouldn't be having this conversation. Instead, it was slow and politically meager. So concerned were we with "collateral damage" and offending the "muslim street" that we have been rsponsible for much more death, destruction and financial ruin than should ever have been obtained. There would still be hope, though, were it not for the frightening fact that the current crop of career minded power hungry fools in DC now, are even more spineless and politically expedient than the last; and by a huge and dangerous margin.
Do you really believe that retreating from the front now would bring about an end to the "hosility?" I know that is exactly what Hollywood and the marxist media would love for you to believe. Anyone who does is not only naive in the extreme, but is also a detriment to the pepetuation of the American experience altogether. If you think for one second that a withdrawl from the field now would provoke the enemy to cease it's efforts against us and our allies, I have a bridge I'd like to seel you. Have you seen what these people (animals, really) teach their children? Not just at home, but in state run schools? There is plenty of visual records of this sort of thing, and a plethora of documentation all over the web and elsewhere to detail not only the teachings but it's rapidly growing popularity.
We are not the only society on the planet that truly believes that our children are the future. The enemy knows it, too. If we do not destroy them now, who will? If we do not erradicate this murderous ideology now, what will you tell your children and grand children 20 or 30 years from now, when the next generation of suicide bombers are as prevelant as the street lights in New York City?
These are brutal people and the must be eliminated brutally. If they are not, then you overall thesis will be proven correct. The only problem is, by then, there just might not be many Americans left to regret their parents inaction.
PEACE....to all who would reciprocate it.
"Contrary to what you write, we needn't give up; we just need to accept that this IS a winnable war ONLY if we do what Americans had always done....up until about 40 years ago, that is. Drop the hammer, and every other peice of ordinance we can airlift or sail into the theater. Should've been done that way since day one. If so, this would have been over long ago."
Essentially, any war is winnable if you're willing to pay the price. But in the end, what do we win other than questionable bragging rights? Is that worth the blood of our children? Personally, I don't think so. Expending lives to save face is a despicable act of arrogance.
We can accomplish nothing further; we are not and should never be nation builders.
Essentially, any war is winnable if you're willing to pay the price. But in the end, what do we win other than questionable bragging rights? Is that worth the blood of our children? Personally, I don't think so. Expending lives to save face is a despicable act of arrogance.
We can accomplish nothing further; we are not and should never be nation builders.
First of all, "saving face" as you put it is not entirely an arrogant act. It's about respect. If your enemies do not respect (yes, even fear) you, they will take liberties against you which will then lead to the shedding of "the blood of our children." It's been that way since the beginning of time. Given that the enemy we are fighting now is light years behind the modern world and it's more lenient way of thinking, they are that much further behind the curve when it comes to adopting a more civilized approach to "this diverse world."
But, that is all beside the point. Why is it that some folks have allowed themselves to honestly believe that those people are simply fighting amongst themselves, and that we are somehow intruding on their internal conflicts? That train of thought is not only terribly uniformed, but extremely dangerous. In point of fact, our foes are not engaged in land disputes and ideological disagreements with each other and their closest neighbors. Not even close.
Theirs is indeed a global crusade. Do you really believe that our withdrawl will persuade that ugly turtle to retract it's offensive beak and re-think it's world wide strategy. Not in any of our wildest dreams. That being so, I'd much rather our professional warriors fight them over there, then right here in good ole' Pennsyltucky. (Not that any of us would shrink from the responsibility, God forbid it become necessary)
They brought this fight to us, and we must return the favor. No, not just to "save face," my friend. This war is necessary, and always has been.
We just forgot how to fight.
But, that is all beside the point. Why is it that some folks have allowed themselves to honestly believe that those people are simply fighting amongst themselves, and that we are somehow intruding on their internal conflicts? That train of thought is not only terribly uniformed, but extremely dangerous. In point of fact, our foes are not engaged in land disputes and ideological disagreements with each other and their closest neighbors. Not even close.
Theirs is indeed a global crusade. Do you really believe that our withdrawl will persuade that ugly turtle to retract it's offensive beak and re-think it's world wide strategy. Not in any of our wildest dreams. That being so, I'd much rather our professional warriors fight them over there, then right here in good ole' Pennsyltucky. (Not that any of us would shrink from the responsibility, God forbid it become necessary)
They brought this fight to us, and we must return the favor. No, not just to "save face," my friend. This war is necessary, and always has been.
We just forgot how to fight.
"I usually fully agree with you"
~And I with you, actually. You are one of the best I have found on this site, and I admire you greatly. That you and I disagree on a few points is not tragic...It's American.
"...and not one of them was from Iraq or Afghanistan where all of our soldiers are dying."
~I do not understand this statement from you; mostly because you are way to good at what you do to be so factually inaccurate. I would strangly urge some much deeper investigation into the origins of many of our foes.
"...and not one of them was from Iraq or Afghanistan where all of our soldiers are dying."
~I've been asking that question, myself, for many years now. The hateful lessons (Wahabism, etc.) taught in Saudi schools should be of great concern to all of us. (View the film "Obsession")
"Personally, I could give a s**t about the ugly turtle poking its head out - I think we need to focus our defense funds on our own soil and build the best darn arsenal we can to protect our own."
~With your base point (safety here at home) I couldn't agree more. However, in so far as the enemy's goals are global, so too should be our efforts to stop them.
"We've had open borders for too long and we've educated people who go home to preach hatred of us."
~You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with this statment more than I do. Amen..and Amen.
"We should not accept that - but it's their battle - not ours - Our battle is protecting our country - not theirs."
~Once again, I am stunned by our apparent misunderstanding on this urgent point. They have made it "our battle." Moreover, any military historian and/or strategist will tell you that sometimes (a lot of times, actually), the best defense is a highly potent offense; taking the fight to the enemy before he brings it to you..again.
"Al Queda should be wiped out by insurgents of our own - not massive armed forces."
~Indeed, we have the personell and expertise to adopt these particular tactics (in those cases and scenarios where it is warrented and strategically appropriate), but our politically correct government is (and has been) loathe to deploy it. These special operations, however, cannot be successful without the support and (sometimes) inclusion of "massive armed forces." This is simple sound military doctrine.
"You can't fight this war the way we are fighting it. It's not going to work."
~I've been screaming this from the rooftops for a long time now. You know that.
Wow...I really enjoy discussing this with you. After reading your bio, and some of your other stuff, I have to say that we are very much alike in our thoughts, viewpoints and ideologies. This being so, I have reread some of my earlier comments and discovered that I may have made a mistake or two; not with content or intention, but with mannerisms and wording. It would seem (to me at least) that a few of my statements may have come off a little personal, when indeed they should never have been. For this, I apologize, and sincerely hope you can forgive me. It is just that this subject is so deeply personal to me. My connection to this conflict is extreme for more reasons than one. For one thing, I have sent off and welcomed home so many relatives and friends in the past eight years...not all of them alive. We owe them our best; they have always volunteered theirs.
In point fact, I am submitting this particular set of comments from a motel room in Columbia, SC. Tomorrow I will re-enter gate 4 at Fort Jackson to attend the Basic Training Graduation of another soldier who will undoubtedly be asked to risk his life for you and me.
This one is my younger brother, Jeremiah.
May God go with him and his comrades.
~And I with you, actually. You are one of the best I have found on this site, and I admire you greatly. That you and I disagree on a few points is not tragic...It's American.
"...and not one of them was from Iraq or Afghanistan where all of our soldiers are dying."
~I do not understand this statement from you; mostly because you are way to good at what you do to be so factually inaccurate. I would strangly urge some much deeper investigation into the origins of many of our foes.
"...and not one of them was from Iraq or Afghanistan where all of our soldiers are dying."
~I've been asking that question, myself, for many years now. The hateful lessons (Wahabism, etc.) taught in Saudi schools should be of great concern to all of us. (View the film "Obsession")
"Personally, I could give a s**t about the ugly turtle poking its head out - I think we need to focus our defense funds on our own soil and build the best darn arsenal we can to protect our own."
~With your base point (safety here at home) I couldn't agree more. However, in so far as the enemy's goals are global, so too should be our efforts to stop them.
"We've had open borders for too long and we've educated people who go home to preach hatred of us."
~You'd be hard pressed to find anyone who agrees with this statment more than I do. Amen..and Amen.
"We should not accept that - but it's their battle - not ours - Our battle is protecting our country - not theirs."
~Once again, I am stunned by our apparent misunderstanding on this urgent point. They have made it "our battle." Moreover, any military historian and/or strategist will tell you that sometimes (a lot of times, actually), the best defense is a highly potent offense; taking the fight to the enemy before he brings it to you..again.
"Al Queda should be wiped out by insurgents of our own - not massive armed forces."
~Indeed, we have the personell and expertise to adopt these particular tactics (in those cases and scenarios where it is warrented and strategically appropriate), but our politically correct government is (and has been) loathe to deploy it. These special operations, however, cannot be successful without the support and (sometimes) inclusion of "massive armed forces." This is simple sound military doctrine.
"You can't fight this war the way we are fighting it. It's not going to work."
~I've been screaming this from the rooftops for a long time now. You know that.
Wow...I really enjoy discussing this with you. After reading your bio, and some of your other stuff, I have to say that we are very much alike in our thoughts, viewpoints and ideologies. This being so, I have reread some of my earlier comments and discovered that I may have made a mistake or two; not with content or intention, but with mannerisms and wording. It would seem (to me at least) that a few of my statements may have come off a little personal, when indeed they should never have been. For this, I apologize, and sincerely hope you can forgive me. It is just that this subject is so deeply personal to me. My connection to this conflict is extreme for more reasons than one. For one thing, I have sent off and welcomed home so many relatives and friends in the past eight years...not all of them alive. We owe them our best; they have always volunteered theirs.
In point fact, I am submitting this particular set of comments from a motel room in Columbia, SC. Tomorrow I will re-enter gate 4 at Fort Jackson to attend the Basic Training Graduation of another soldier who will undoubtedly be asked to risk his life for you and me.
This one is my younger brother, Jeremiah.
May God go with him and his comrades.
Bull - I usually fully agree with you - but I think you are 100% off base here. They brought the war to us? Yes, the did - and not one of them was from Iraq or Afghanistan where all of our soldiers are dying.
If we were to go after the orgins of the hijackers - why are we not at war with Saudi Arabia?
Personally, I could give a s**t about the ugly turtle poking its head out - I think we need to focus our defense funds on our own soil and build the best darn arsenal we can to protect our own.
We've had open borders for too long and we've educated people who go home to preach hatred of us.
We should not accept that - but it's their battle - not ours - Our battle is protecting our country - not theirs.
Also - Al Queda should be wiped out by insurgents of our own - not massive armed forces. You can't fight this war the way we are fighting it. It's not going to work.
If we were to go after the orgins of the hijackers - why are we not at war with Saudi Arabia?
Personally, I could give a s**t about the ugly turtle poking its head out - I think we need to focus our defense funds on our own soil and build the best darn arsenal we can to protect our own.
We've had open borders for too long and we've educated people who go home to preach hatred of us.
We should not accept that - but it's their battle - not ours - Our battle is protecting our country - not theirs.
Also - Al Queda should be wiped out by insurgents of our own - not massive armed forces. You can't fight this war the way we are fighting it. It's not going to work.
I think you are missing my point and I certainly respect yours. I fully agree with you that we are a caring and giving country and we never fought this war the way was could have fought this war.
However, what are we fighting? A different lifestyle that you frown upon? So be it. They will not change and despite the work we did in Iraq, I thin it will fall back down when we leave and we can no longer afford to be the police of the world - we need to assume responsibility for our own nation and our own national issues.
They are brutal, but the only way we could eliminate these people is by killing many more that are not brutal and their brutality lies against us not in them.
They have human rights issue. Not too long ago, we did too. Yesterday a LA judge stepped down because he would not marry a white woman and a black man (or maybe reversed.) It wasn't even 100 years ago, women couldn't vote, black men were lynched and murdered, woman were not allowed to play sports and still to this day we see unsustainable programs and not enough money to assist those who need help (really need help - not illegals and those who can but don't.)
The money we spent on the war could be used to strengthen borders, expand schools, teach ourselves.
No where would I ever suggest what we did was in vain. I think it was an attempt to help. But, our attempt to help was to always make them more like us. They don't want to be. No amount of frightening or reform or money spent will change this.
They are brutal people - and eventually their own will fight back against them.
Strengthen our borders so they the September 11th bombers would not have been allowed in, allowed to train, attend flight school - all things we miss because our funds are strapped.
I am also never going to say we should not build our military and produce the most effective shield possible.
I just don't think that shield should be human.
Our country was once a brutal nation too. Ask the family that lost their son from Chicago from whistling at a white girl, or the women that were told to behave when their husbands beat them half to death.
Eventually, the Middle East will evolve much in the way it has done in Israel. But - we can't force this.
It's one thing to destroy a nuclear device - its another to destroy a life style.
That said, I respect what you are saying - and if we stay in this region -- I completely agree we need to eradicate not tip toe.
I just think that will only drive more hatred to a nation that I don't believe deserves it....US.
Lastly - as for this line: "So what would you have us do now? Obtain 300 million signatures on an engraved apology to the decendants of King George?"
Why would we need to apologize? We made an effort to help -and we do not need to bury our heads for that?
We however, are acting like decendants of King George in this country- we are sending troops to fight a gentlemans war - just like he did and a gentlemans war it is not.
We may be the most powerful country in the world, but Swingin' Jazz once said - no matter how much we fight - their sons, and the sons of their sons and the sons of their sons - will always reject what we are trying to do.
We won't do that. We're an educated nation and we are unwilling to fight a guerrilla war with our young men and women.
However, what are we fighting? A different lifestyle that you frown upon? So be it. They will not change and despite the work we did in Iraq, I thin it will fall back down when we leave and we can no longer afford to be the police of the world - we need to assume responsibility for our own nation and our own national issues.
They are brutal, but the only way we could eliminate these people is by killing many more that are not brutal and their brutality lies against us not in them.
They have human rights issue. Not too long ago, we did too. Yesterday a LA judge stepped down because he would not marry a white woman and a black man (or maybe reversed.) It wasn't even 100 years ago, women couldn't vote, black men were lynched and murdered, woman were not allowed to play sports and still to this day we see unsustainable programs and not enough money to assist those who need help (really need help - not illegals and those who can but don't.)
The money we spent on the war could be used to strengthen borders, expand schools, teach ourselves.
No where would I ever suggest what we did was in vain. I think it was an attempt to help. But, our attempt to help was to always make them more like us. They don't want to be. No amount of frightening or reform or money spent will change this.
They are brutal people - and eventually their own will fight back against them.
Strengthen our borders so they the September 11th bombers would not have been allowed in, allowed to train, attend flight school - all things we miss because our funds are strapped.
I am also never going to say we should not build our military and produce the most effective shield possible.
I just don't think that shield should be human.
Our country was once a brutal nation too. Ask the family that lost their son from Chicago from whistling at a white girl, or the women that were told to behave when their husbands beat them half to death.
Eventually, the Middle East will evolve much in the way it has done in Israel. But - we can't force this.
It's one thing to destroy a nuclear device - its another to destroy a life style.
That said, I respect what you are saying - and if we stay in this region -- I completely agree we need to eradicate not tip toe.
I just think that will only drive more hatred to a nation that I don't believe deserves it....US.
Lastly - as for this line: "So what would you have us do now? Obtain 300 million signatures on an engraved apology to the decendants of King George?"
Why would we need to apologize? We made an effort to help -and we do not need to bury our heads for that?
We however, are acting like decendants of King George in this country- we are sending troops to fight a gentlemans war - just like he did and a gentlemans war it is not.
We may be the most powerful country in the world, but Swingin' Jazz once said - no matter how much we fight - their sons, and the sons of their sons and the sons of their sons - will always reject what we are trying to do.
We won't do that. We're an educated nation and we are unwilling to fight a guerrilla war with our young men and women.
i totally agree with this comment.
I must say, after reading the article written & submitted by Write4Life, I was in complete agreement with her. However, after reading the above comment by jnkasper I'm not so sure. They both make sense to this American man. I'm certainly glad I'm not the person whose decision was responsible for either admitting defeat & pulling out of the Middle East, or staying there & continuing to fight in a War we cannot win as it is currently being fought.
They've been fighting in the Middle East for several thousand years & probably will continue to until the second coming & perhaps after that. I don't know the answer to the question of should we stay or should we go, but I do know we cannot win unless & untill we take off the gloves & fight to win.
The way it is now is like sending your Son into a UFC cage match telling him he has to win the fight but he must do it without hitting his opponent in the face.
They've been fighting in the Middle East for several thousand years & probably will continue to until the second coming & perhaps after that. I don't know the answer to the question of should we stay or should we go, but I do know we cannot win unless & untill we take off the gloves & fight to win.
The way it is now is like sending your Son into a UFC cage match telling him he has to win the fight but he must do it without hitting his opponent in the face.
this is a political opinion alright....what the western mind dont understand that what is happening in Palestine is the plight of people who have been backed against the wall and now they feel that they have nothing more to lose....if US calls itself a super power and a mediator then it should stop taking sides and solve the problem of Palestenians....
On the Afghan and Pakistan side, it is a different matter altogether....US did not make any friends on this side because of the policies of last 8 years and now you guys realize that its a war that cannot be won....where were you guys when Mr. Bush was breathing fire all around by saying "if you are not with us, you are agianst us" ???....i think you guys need to give some time to Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton and maybe they will bring about a change which was promised to you as well as to us.
On the Afghan and Pakistan side, it is a different matter altogether....US did not make any friends on this side because of the policies of last 8 years and now you guys realize that its a war that cannot be won....where were you guys when Mr. Bush was breathing fire all around by saying "if you are not with us, you are agianst us" ???....i think you guys need to give some time to Mr. Obama and Mrs. Clinton and maybe they will bring about a change which was promised to you as well as to us.
What the western mind does not understand is how you can justify sending your sons into a restaraunt to blow up innocent civilians.
The Palestinian plight has much sympathy in this country. It may not appear so because of our support of Israel which ,many believe should cease... But - although we should offer assistance in negotiations, I don't think we should send military to support either of you.
I'll also restate that - I for one will never understand how a mother could send her son laced with explosives to kill the son and daughters of another. It makes no difference to me if they are a difference religion or race - I do not understand it and that is why I suggest we removed our forces and allow you to fight this out yourself as has been done with land disputes for centuries.
The Palestinian plight has much sympathy in this country. It may not appear so because of our support of Israel which ,many believe should cease... But - although we should offer assistance in negotiations, I don't think we should send military to support either of you.
I'll also restate that - I for one will never understand how a mother could send her son laced with explosives to kill the son and daughters of another. It makes no difference to me if they are a difference religion or race - I do not understand it and that is why I suggest we removed our forces and allow you to fight this out yourself as has been done with land disputes for centuries.
my dear, nobody is justifying sending their children into a war....what i meant that these people dont see any future for themselves as for their children thats why they are acting this way....you guys need to understand that....
It sure seems that Palestanian cause has no support because very recently Israel was allowed to bombard Palestanians for more than 20 days while the US Administration kept quiet...i dont think US has many friends in Palestine....
For sure there are many disputes in this part of the world but US always comes charging in....first there were Communists, then Talibans and Al-Qaeda and for sure there will be others....but why then, America has to play leader in every conflit which it cannot solve ? I only ask this of you in return.
It sure seems that Palestanian cause has no support because very recently Israel was allowed to bombard Palestanians for more than 20 days while the US Administration kept quiet...i dont think US has many friends in Palestine....
For sure there are many disputes in this part of the world but US always comes charging in....first there were Communists, then Talibans and Al-Qaeda and for sure there will be others....but why then, America has to play leader in every conflit which it cannot solve ? I only ask this of you in return.
I completely agree with you.
Children no longer need to be brainwashed by Islamic texts. Jihad will not be achieved by continually committing suicides. Don't they realize that they will run out of people if they continue suicide bombings? The bomber will not receive 72 virgins in the afterlife. At least the USA hasn't lost all of its morality; Maine rules now.
Kudos for posting a brilliant article, Write4Life. I am all for PEACE. No war, please. And when someone says US is in Iraq and Afghanistan for nation building I do not agree with it one bit. It's the crudest of jokes one might ever hear, I think!
I mean, ask the Afghans and the Iraqis whether they agree to that. If they do, they would be welcoming the American troops with open arms, don't you think so?
I mean, ask the Afghans and the Iraqis whether they agree to that. If they do, they would be welcoming the American troops with open arms, don't you think so?
Actually a subset of the Iraq population actually has been welcoming us with open arms and dancing in the streets since the day we set foot there. This would be the Kurdish population in the north who got the shaft from every ruler to rule the region for hundreds of years. Unfortunately poor reporting means focusing on the problems and not the successes.
What we are forgetting about is that the young men & women fighting in Iraq & Afghanistan joined the military knowing that they may someday be called to battle.
I would appreciate it if some of our military men & women or their families checked in to get their pulse on this issue. I will not speak for them nor should I. This is what Marines & Soldiers are trained for. So let's not diminish their hard work and effort that they have done. When it is time to come home, our Generals on the ground will tell us.
We cannot embolden the enemy by giving up or walking away now. This will have have been a victory for the Islamist terrorists and will have put our troops to shame.
We should support their efforts and be proud of the work they do. When I hear a resounding voice from the rank and file and the boots on the ground, I will say it is time to come home.
No one really knows what is in the hearts & minds of these patriots fighting the wars. no one can measure the courage or valor and the pride of wearing that military uniform unless you have been there.
All of those that 'Hope" for peace are only fooling themselves. We need to have a strong & capable military even during times of peace. We are not going to solve all of our problems by sitting across each at the UN and exchanging e-mails. If we have a nation of liguini spines that will not defend this country or have the stomach for War when it is needed, this nation will perish. There is no getting around the fact that there will be conflicts in which War is the only way to resolve the problem.
I would appreciate it if some of our military men & women or their families checked in to get their pulse on this issue. I will not speak for them nor should I. This is what Marines & Soldiers are trained for. So let's not diminish their hard work and effort that they have done. When it is time to come home, our Generals on the ground will tell us.
We cannot embolden the enemy by giving up or walking away now. This will have have been a victory for the Islamist terrorists and will have put our troops to shame.
We should support their efforts and be proud of the work they do. When I hear a resounding voice from the rank and file and the boots on the ground, I will say it is time to come home.
No one really knows what is in the hearts & minds of these patriots fighting the wars. no one can measure the courage or valor and the pride of wearing that military uniform unless you have been there.
All of those that 'Hope" for peace are only fooling themselves. We need to have a strong & capable military even during times of peace. We are not going to solve all of our problems by sitting across each at the UN and exchanging e-mails. If we have a nation of liguini spines that will not defend this country or have the stomach for War when it is needed, this nation will perish. There is no getting around the fact that there will be conflicts in which War is the only way to resolve the problem.
I do not usually disagree with you - but I do here. I think Brysansix brings up a good point - the Kurds were victims of mass genocide which was a genuine cause for intervention. However, to this day - their issues over land are still not settled and if we get involved with another land dispute - it will be a second - Israel - Palestine area.
Bringing the troops home is not something I would call a failure - the work in Iraq - taking Sadam out of the position he was in - that to me me a success - an evil man who killed millions and was a tyrant - there is no other name.
What I am saying is the Iraq, Afghanistan are not our wars. They are land disputes and religious conflict and our troops are better served defending us. The Middle East needs to settle its own issues and we cannot help without being viewed as aggressors.
The work of the American military is never in vain and never something that I would not completely support. It is not the military that decides to go to war - it is just the military that goes to war. It's the power players that send our soldiers off - and they do not fight the battle and Obama isn't even seding enough to protect those that are there.
Waling away would not embolden the Islamic terrorists...I disagree. If they want to blow each other up - so be it, and our troops can build up our borders and our strength with a more isolationist approach.
Bring them home.
Bringing the troops home is not something I would call a failure - the work in Iraq - taking Sadam out of the position he was in - that to me me a success - an evil man who killed millions and was a tyrant - there is no other name.
What I am saying is the Iraq, Afghanistan are not our wars. They are land disputes and religious conflict and our troops are better served defending us. The Middle East needs to settle its own issues and we cannot help without being viewed as aggressors.
The work of the American military is never in vain and never something that I would not completely support. It is not the military that decides to go to war - it is just the military that goes to war. It's the power players that send our soldiers off - and they do not fight the battle and Obama isn't even seding enough to protect those that are there.
Waling away would not embolden the Islamic terrorists...I disagree. If they want to blow each other up - so be it, and our troops can build up our borders and our strength with a more isolationist approach.
Bring them home.
yes we can defeat them, but not with weapons. stop our use of oil asap. get electric cars. wind power. hydroelectric power. if they don't have money to buy weapons they will be castrated. but we have companies, american but really international, that will fight us to the death to keep us dependent on oil.
For as much as I could read, with the time I have now, I agree with write4life and her 'allies', on the 'unwinnable war' thesis. Some ideas I agree with and would extend: follow George Washington's advice and revert to not partaking in these international affairs (the terrorist attacks would be taking place in various countries without our intervention); accept that we are digging the bottomless pit in Afganistan-endless enemies and growing hatred for American boldness- and employ defensive meausres at home: continue to close the borders, reject all illegal immigrants; do both as much as possible, re-employ the patriot act, and enforce stricter admissions guidlines to universities and other training and educational insitutions. If we had never attacked anyone after 9-11 we probably would have more world-wide support in the former Iraq and present Afganistan war. We would have 'insurgents' of our own-a clever passive solution-to allow the world a chance to get angry over atrocities done to us and themselves and to help defend our cause, by not having to seek revenge for everything done to us-stop being the world's police, which obtains for us a bad reputation. A passive approach toward terrorists, with a 'fortifying mentality' would go far in establishing a truly Christian response to a fanatically Muslim hatred for our lack of a religious book in our society. I am not saying we should establish a state religion, at all, I am merely stating a doctrine of non-violence for two reasons, one: we are digging a bottomless pit in Afganistan with endless enemies, and we could allow other nations to fight this battle: since we are not the only one's suffering from terrorism. We need to focus on protecting America from attacks through defensive measures, people are tired of the hint of nation-building in Iraq and Afganistan. Just maybe we would have an endless supply of insurgents in this war, if we took a defensive posture towards terrorism, instead of contiually agitating the matter with open war, that is fashioned against us, like the Red Sox in years past were against the Yankees. They know how we fight, so the gig is up for us, we must get creative in how we approach this war. Bring all the Jews to America, and allow Armaggedon to commence, and when China, Iran, and Europe are finally in possession of what they want, maybe we will be able to move forward as a society. The United Nations has to be reworked around a new global community, incorporating the aforementioned regions of the world. Accept that we are moving towards a one-world government, and begin taking your children out of schools and churches and start educating them at home. Admit that our cultural institutions are failing us, and we need a ground roots approach in America that is inovative and progressive. We presently have a president with an incoherent style of leadership. We keeps sending troops oversees, spending lives and money in a fruitless war, while focusing his 'talents' on issues at home that are highly controversial and fruitless at best. We should focus more an urban education if anything and less on foreign wars. Our society is warped economically, philosophically, and strategically. We need a fresh approach to this war, and I'm afraid Obama is worsening what Bush started.
Reported by Write4Life
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