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Harry Reid and Nancy Pelosi Will Never Go Along With This...

By: firesisle send a private message
Colorado Springs : CO : USA | 24 days ago  
Views: 139

I keep reading more and more articles and arguments about health care reform. Blame is being thrown all around, but nobody really seems to be doing any pragmatic analysis. All sides say, "It absolutely has to be this way, or that way..."; maybe it can be another way.

Opponents point to Medicare and its glaring abuses and inefficiencies as a good reason to avoid a “public option”, and I agree, especially when there's another option. It's called group coverage.

In looking at the money being spent on Medicare, and Medicaid, as well as the money being lost by hospitals and others who are forced to treat indigents and then just absorb the losses, it seems to me that it would be cheaper all around, if instead of building a whole new government controlled bureaucracy, with it's startup, implementation and administration costs, we, instead, take something that's already in place and use it to it's best advantage to solve our problems.

Group insurance policies are what most businesses use to cover their employees. The bigger the business, the bigger the group, and the smaller the individual policy premiums. Imagine a group with 250 million members. That's some serious juice. Why 'wouldn't it be possible to just sign up for the biggest group policy of all time, and have the government underwrite the premiums?

If you think about it, what's the primary reason we need medical insurance in the first place? It's because the associated costs of medical treatment have become too expensive for the average citizen to afford, so instead, we pay the insurance premium, and the insurance companies pay the medical bills.

Under every health care plan that's been proposed to date, the government will be paying all the medical bills. It seems to me that it would be better to just pay the premiums instead, and let the private insurance industry handle the bills the same way they always have, with a few notable exceptions; no exclusions for pre-existing conditions, no exclusions for “experimental procedures”, no exclusions for "accepted" pharmaceutical lists.

Under that policy, it would be possible to abolish Medicare, and Medicaid, with all their associated administration costs and abuses. Their former recipients would now have real health insurance. It could also take over for the Veterans Administration, and provide some real health care for our veterans. Considering the money saved by abolishing these programs alone, I think it would be doable, and provide a much better level of coverage than any of the public options that have been proposed.

There's lots of money to be made by the insurance industry, so we put the program up for competitive bids every 2 years; if they're providing real health care, for every man woman and child in the United States, and our Military, who the Hell care how much money the industry makes?

Copays could be established at a reasonable level for everyone, and waived for those up to, say, 150% of the current poverty level, and then graduated to those at 400% of the current poverty level. Since the biggest impediment to retirement for the average worker is concerns about health insurance and it's associated premiums, at 55 years of age, regardless of income, all copays could be waived, allowing for earlier, and more secure retirement.

Pharmaceuticals could be purchased at huge volume discounts and distributed on an non-profit basis; research and development costs could be underwritten as well, making the drugs much cheaper, even for name brand drugs. Other countries who have traditionally profited by the same types of volume buying from US drug companies, would be charged a tariff, to offset the government's contribution to R&D.

Why not create health care reform where everybody wins, including private industry?

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Posted By Write4Life Write4Life | 24 days ago
EXCELLENT! You've got my vote in 2012. It makes perfect sense, and the way the majority of major private industry leaders work now. If you want to supply to John Hankcock - you agree up front and the contract is sometimes reviewed annually, sometimes every 5 years. Same thing with the State of Mass, and it produces a win-win for all.

I do however, believe we need SOME limitations on experimental procedures however... not sure what they would be because I am not a medical professional - but NO exclusions for experimental procedures sounds like a way for abuse to creep in.
Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 24 days ago
Hi Maryanne! Very good firesisle! You know what stinks? That would work for average Americans but despite all the obvious crap I can't get people to realize they do not matter. The insurance companies own the Government and us. They make obsens profits and decide who gets covered and who lives or dies.

The Politicians only care about their parties and the insurance companies their profits. We are on our own and Obama is all we have. I have been hearing the Bill is weak and it will not pass but once again all sides will declare victory. Republicans they stopped it! liberal Dems they gave it a good try.

I do not trust these people any more. Question: Do you advertise your work? I don't think so because you should be getting more reads, you deserve it. Do you subscribe to Digg, Reddit,,stumbleupon? They are on the bottom of your stories.
Posted By Write4Life Write4Life | 24 days ago
Hi James - here are some of our recent stats: (MA)

"For an individual earning $31,213, the cheapest plan can cost $9,872 in premiums and out-of-pocket payments. Low-income residents, previously eligible for free care, have insurance policies requiring unaffordable copayments for office visits and medications."

This comes from The Globe.

To me the biggest issue is we never seem to learn from our mistakes. I DO want everyone to have health insurance - but this plan Pelosi and Reid are pushing will cost taxpayers WAY too much and here is why....

Family coverage for me is $1,300/mo. I have three kids - live in one of the high health coverage cost States and cannot be without coverage. FOR NOW.

If this bill passes, I can drop my coverage, pay a yearly penalty of $3,800 and then IF something happens (God forbid) obtain a policy immediately that cannot deny me for not having insurance and pocketing a LOT of money every year. This seems too big an area for abuse to me.

I know we can all claim the ethical issues and what not - but allowing the penalty to be that low - will cause a surge in people dropping coverage and taxpayers will end up paying more for people who only jump on policies when someone gets sick or hurt.

Some may see that as acceptable - I don't. I'd rather see health coverage carriers compete across State lines and force price competition.

What has happened in Massachusetts is why the penalty clauses do not work. The plan has failed (and it was a Republican plan) and to push through this legislation which is very much the same - is lunatic fringe.

We should learn from mistakes - not grow them.

I don't think people are that far apart - NO ONE wants a child to die, a parent to die, anyone to die from lack of insurance.

What we can't seem to get passed is partisanship and you're right - BOTH parties are failing us....but I disagree with you that Obama isn't failing us - I think he is as well.
Posted By firesisle firesisle | 24 days ago
Thanks for the read and the compliments, y'all...

I think the crux of my argument is that is doesn't matter if the insurance companies make money, even huge amounts of money, as long as every single citizen has quality health care, which this plan would provide, because coverage would be mandated by the contract they sign. It would be similar to the health care package I have now, and I've never seen one better. For me, major surgery, etc. is covered 100%. Because of the money saved on wasted administrative costs and fraud of other programs, even low income families could have the same coverage.
Posted By amalgam80 amalgam80 | 24 days ago
"Imagine a group with 250 million members...Why wouldn't it be possible to just sign up for the biggest group policy of all time, and have the government underwrite the premiums?"

How is this being set up? Who is running this program?

"so we put the program up for competitive bids every 2 years"

same questions.

What happens if someone doesn't pay? What happens if someone is late with their payment?


And maybe I missed it in your article but what is being done to make sure cost of care is lowered.

For example, If I get an x-ray done at one hospital it costs around $300. I get it done at another hospital it may $500.

About a year ago I had x-rays done of my hand, two photos, cost of $400. A lot of things are just plainly over priced in the medical industry.


What are the safeguard for fraud? How does the program lower wastage in the hospitals and over-charging in the hospital? What about costs related to "defensive medicine"?

I think you didn't take into account that if you fork over 250 million people to the insurance companies, you give them a huge incentive to consolidate and offer the consumer less choices.

Big companies just don't do what is taught in economic classes. What I mean is this: In the 80s when I was a kid, most of the jeans in the GAP store were made in the U.S.. By the 90s none of the jeans were made in the U.S.

The excuse for outsourcing given to the average American is that if we outsource we get the product made cheaper, thereby passing the savings on to you the consumer.

I have really never seen this happen, I haven't seen it with GAP, NIKE, GM or any other company that said money saved by manufacturing would go to the consumers. Instead the prices either have no-change or they end up going up like everything else goes up overtime.

The companies eat up all the profits, the consumers never or hardly ever see any savings.

The negotiations you are talking about (every 2 years) would not help the consumers too much. I can almost guarantee that everytime they negotiate, the premiums would go up. Some insurance backed study would be cited saying that premiums need to go up, and the 250 million people would be captive to the system.

The Insurance companies would be even more powerful than they are right now and they would own even more influence in government and elsewhere.

The loyalties of the corporation is to their shareholders and executives, they would try to screw over the 250 mil. every chance they could if it meant higher profits.

Even if everyone could afford the insurance at the beginning of this program, a few years down the line, more and more people will be giving up lots of things to be able to afford the healthcare insurance.
Reply By firesisle firesisle | 24 days ago
"Even if everyone could afford the insurance at the beginning of this program, a few years down the line, more and more people will be giving up lots of things to be able to afford the healthcare insurance."

You need to go back up and read my article. I've addressed this and the other items you brought up; all you need to do is read the article.

If the government pays the premiums, everyone will have health care and anybody can afford free. Do you get it now?
Reply By firesisle firesisle | 24 days ago
It would be paid for by the government; all premiums would be a single-payer, so they couldn't ever be late.

The idea is the NOBODY pays any premiums. They're paid by the government. The government pays the premiums as the group insurer (like employers do now), and the insurance companies would pay the claims(like they do now).
The insurance companies would be dying to get this big of an account, so by competitive bidding, the price would stay reasonable. They'd have no incentive to screw anybody; just the opposite.

In any case, it wouldn't affect the people because they DON'T PAY ANY PREMIUMS.
Posted By Write4Life Write4Life | 24 days ago
Amalgam - you're intelligent - you missed the entire point of the article because you're playing partisan politics.

Try reading it again. Might be the difference between understanding what he's saying and just dismissing it.
Reply By amalgam80 amalgam80 | 24 days ago
I don't know man, for some reason I can't grasp what the system you're trying to explain is.

As far as I'm concerned, I don't pay anything for insurance. The government pays my premiums and the insurance company covers my claims.

And I'm assuming the goverment is getting money from us by taxing our income, all the while we get rid of Medicare and the VA and have them join us.

The government will also be buying all the pharmas and selling them to us at cost?

I think I like this plan. The only thing is...could you imagine if a Democrat was suggesting this plan and not a conservative.
Reply By firesisle firesisle | 23 days ago
I've never seen anyone propose it before;

You've got it exactly; and it's completely doable.

I'd support it no matter who suggested it; basically, it combines the positives of a single payer system, while continuing to promote private enterprise and stimulate the ecomomy.

Just look at all the waste in the Veteran's Administration, Medicaid, and Medicare; a lot of it is administrative stuff. Let's just get out of the business of medical administration completely. Let the government take the place traditionally held by our employers, especially since, as the government, they hold all the cards and determine the scope of the contract. That way, everybody is covered, for major and minor health care expenses, pharmaceuticals, hospitalization, etc., with those who can afford it paying a reasonable copay, and those who can't paying no copay. No 70/30 crap for anybody. 100% coverage. That's what I currently have now for major medical and there's no reason it couldn't be that way for everybody.

What this country needs now, more than ever, is imagination rather than ideology...

Sincere thanks for taking another look. If you like it, tell some other people.....
Posted By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 23 days ago
An interesting proposal and certainly an audacious one, but you're operating from at least one false premise.

You talk about the administrative costs in Medicare and the VA, but they are much more efficient than private insurance. Administrative costs in Medicare are 1-2 cents on the dollar, while private insurance is up around 30 cents of every insurance dollar.

Why not just put everyone on Medicare, which is the flip side of this? Your plan will have to raise taxes anyway, because even as you have the government paying the premiums, the government has to get the money for that somewhere.

I have no problem with keeping medicine itself private, but why do we want to reward the insurance companies when by all accounts, they are one of the biggest problems?

Still, an interesting idea.
Posted By BorderExplorer BorderExplorer | 23 days ago
I am really out of my league in this arena; I don't have a business head. So I'm more a listener on this thread, but I want to voice my support for this kind of thinking "outside the box." One aspect of this proposal that I particularly like is that it is taking the current situation's structure and improving it. I do wonder if we will ever be able to dismantle the insurance industry which is so entrenched. If we can work with the system and get health care for everybody, it is fine with me if someone makes money doing it. Thanks for your proposal, firesisle. I'd like to see this get greater exposure.
Reply By firesisle firesisle | 23 days ago
Thanks BE... I'm no fan of the insurance industry, but if we can turn the tables, and make it work for us instead of against us, I think we'd be miles ahead in the game...
Posted By firesisle firesisle | 23 days ago
"You talk about the administrative costs in Medicare and the VA, but they are much more efficient than private insurance. Administrative costs in Medicare are 1-2 cents on the dollar, while private insurance is up around 30 cents of every insurance dollar"

Let me try to clarify... if we're not spending any money at all on administration, it's clearly a saving. Under the plan above, the US pays nothing for administration. It's done by the private insurer. Fraud alone, in Medicare is rampant and costs literally billions a year. In the above plan, the private insurers would be on the hook, not the American tax payer.

We would be saving all the administrative costs of initiating a new program, as well as all the administrative costs of the old programs, which is a substantial total.

Taxes shouldn't need to be raised, and here's why: it's far cheaper paying premiums, than trying to fund the actual medical expenses. That's why we buy health insurance in the first place. Under every plan developed so far, the government is paying the actual medical bills, but at ridiculously low rates, similar to Medicare; under the program above,

a) payments to doctors and hospitals would be in line with current front line insurance reimbursements;
b) the total cost of the program would be easy to compute, and budget for since it's based on an equal payment for each person in the US.
c) would provide much better medical coverage than any plan offered so far.
d) fraud, when attempted or completed, would be at the expense of the private insurance companies, not the American tax payer.
e) because of the scope of the membership, only a small portion of the membership would be using maximum benefits, while many would use minimal benefits, and the rest somewhere in between. That's how insurance companies are able to accept our premiums, and still pay out massive medical bills.

Let them keep doing it, but for our benefit as much as theirs. If they get ridiculously rich, who really cares if they can provide first rate health insurance coverage for ever man, woman and child in the US?
Reported by firesisle

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