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Afghanistan Strategy: Destroy and Rebuild! Winning hearts and minds in Afghanistan!

By: jmsjoin send a private message
Kabul : Afghanistan | 3 months ago  
Views: 1,845
  • NATO air strike in Afghanistan supposedly kills 90
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    US: Out of Afghanistan
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    US: Out of Afghanistan


NATO said they made sure there were no civilians in the area in Kunduz after 2 fuel tankers were hijacked by the Taliban and attacked by NATO warplanes as they were being emptied by civilians supposedly recruited to help the Taliban unload them. We first heard 90 civilians were killed in our latest effort to win hearts and minds NATO admitted to zero with promises of an investigation meanwhile alliance chief Anders Fogh Rasmussen later acknowledged that some civilians may have been killed. NATO officials are investigating. A village wiped out by NATO is a far cry from "some civilians may have been killed" The Afghan village devastated by Nato strike on Taliban Gen. McChrystal visits Afghanistan site of disputed NATO airstrike

This kind of "success" as we supposedly search and destroy in our battle to win hearts and minds of course has been reaping rewards since day one and is only getting worse like everything else there with the passing of every year there and despite an increased call from the public to get out we keep adding troops with the promise of more to come as this continues to get worse and Obama vows to see it through!

* Civilian casualties 2001-2003: Somewhere between 3,100 and 3,600 civilians were directly killed by U.S. Operation Enduring Freedom bombing and subsequent Special Forces attacks between October 7, 2001 and June 3, 2003. This estimate counts only so called "impact deaths" deaths that occurred in the immediate aftermath of an explosion or shooting, That number does not count deaths that occurred later as a result of injuries sustained or deaths that occurred as an indirect consequence of the U.S. airstrikes and invasion. We continue to parse numbers and facts to get the results officials want. I am sick of this crap!

* Civilian and overall casualties 2005: All together An estimated 1,700 people were killed in 2005 according to an AP count. Everyone is lumped together this time. We are including civilians, insurgents and security forces members. Some 600 policemen were killed between Karzai's election in early December 2004 and mid-May 2005.

* Civilian and overall casualties A 2006 report by Human Rights Watch said that 4,400 Afghans were killed in 2006. More than 1,000 of them were civilians. and they think 2,077 militants were killed in Coalition operations between September 1 and December 13 and we have to assume another 1,100 or 1,200 were Afghan security forces. Things are not getting better here!

* Civilian and overall casualties continue to increase: More than 7,700 people were killed in 2007, including: 1,019 Afghan policemen, 4,478 militants; 1,980 civilians and 232 foreign soldiers. Professor Marc W. Herold of the University of New Hampshire estimated in September 2007 that between 5,700 and 6,500 Afghan civilians had been killed so far in the war by American and NATO military forces He stressed that this was an "absolute minimum" and probably "a vast underestimate" because the figures do not include what I consider to be the whole wider scope of the nightmare known as life in Afghanistan. I invite you to look at what is a majority of deaths ignored to get more pleasing numbers at the link below!

* Civilian and overall casualties: In 2008 The UN Assistance Mission in Afghanistan (UNAMA) reported that 2,118 civilians were killed as a result of armed conflict in Afghanistan in 2008. It is getting higher but until 2009 this is the highest civilian death toll since the end of the initial 2001 invasion and represents an increase of about 40 percent over UNAMA's figure of 1,523 civilians killed in 2007.

* Civilian and overall casualties 2009: For the first half of 2009 UNAMA recorded 1,013 Afghan civilian deaths for the six months from January 1st to June 30. This represents an increase of 24% over the same period in 2008, when 818 civilians were killed. Civilian casualties of the War in Afghanistan (2001–present ... Last weeks civilian deaths if they happened go a long way in making this worse for the civilians than last year or any year prior.

US Official Reaffirms Need for Afghanistan Society Building

* After looking at the breakdown of civilian casualties by year I will only ask how much more of this search and destroy, winning hearts and minds Nation building will Afghani's tolerate before...

James Joiner

Gardner,Ma

www.anaveragepatriot.com


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  • Posted By TomCat TomCat | 3 months ago
    Jim, if we had gone after Al Qaeda when we first arrived there, we would be out long ago. The Bush/GOP regime was more interested in installing a puppet state to build a pipeline for profit. Now we stuc k trying to support a thoroughly corrupt government. I see no good end to this.Stop by PP and see me. :-)
  • Reply By OMega3_2yew OMega3_2yew | 3 months ago
    As interested in a puppet state as they were the Mario Bros, there must have been a vegetable as healthy as a beat somewhere in their lives. Either that or turnips.
  • Posted By northsunm32 northsunm32 | 3 months ago
    The US government and military and NATO regard control of information as a weapon in waging this war. It is most important both in attempting to control attitudes back home and within Afghanistan. Usually the least damaging spin is put on what happens. Often there is completely denial that there were any civilian casualties. When evidence from the scene and even graphic images show otherwise the story is modified but only to the extent absolutely necessary. That is why there are often enormous differences between official NATO or US and Afghan accounts of the same incidents.
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Hey bud! Afghanistan is corrupt to the core! I see nothing good there either. Friggen Bush had to attack Iraq to get back into the middle east but Obama has inherited Afghanistan his Vietnam!
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Hi northsunm32 We will never know the real casualty total of Afghani's nor of Iraqi's. You can not trust anyone in anything any more, everyone sways things to favor their cause. The friggen doesn't matter any more just to us!
  • Posted By JerrySatire JerrySatire | 3 months ago
    Michael Moore told us a long time ago that our energy companies want to build an Afghan oil pipe line. Time to come home, ASAP!JerrySatirewww.Lampoon.net
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    It is all about oil jerry! This will open anyone's eyes. Most people forget but remember Bush had meetings with the Taliban in Crawford and the White House. He threatened to attack them if they did not let us put a pipeline through and you know the rest. Check this out if you will! http://www.rense.com/general68/hands.htm
  • Reply By TomCat TomCat | 3 months ago
    Actually, it was a gas pipeline, not oil. All the natural gas produced in Tajikistan, Kazakhstan, Uzbekistan and Kyrgyzstan, collectively known as the Central Asian "Stans", is now piped through Russia. Bush ans the GOP wanted conrtol of that gas.
  • Posted By broteem broteem | 3 months ago
    Never mind. American rulers have traditional aptitude in this task. They bother, except a few days before the election time, very little for the diligent American people who take the task of building up the nation brick by brick.American rulers have stood by the most corrupt rulers in different countries down the period of cold war. Remember please: South Vietnam,Pakistan,Chile,Nicaragua, Iraq(before the ousting of Saddam, Saddam has been a good boy) ...Afghanistan is the latest American resort where in the name of fighting against the Talibans hapless camels were also bombed. And if one turns some old pages of the history of the Talibans one will encounter the role of the American rulers too glorious to go through. Who else they nourished those evils in the soil of Afghanistan and Pakistan?I hold great regard for the people of America. Please do not misunderstand this poor fellow.
  • Posted By mona37 mona37 | 3 months ago
    a perfect example of how a war for a cause stated turns all about the motto you just have to win and does not matter who you bring down alongside of it!!what is it about now anyway? seriously, i have no idea anymore!!today oil but tomorrow i am sure it is going to change! but the basic reason of war is always the greed for more power! nobody really fights for the right anymore!
  • Posted By parker3467 parker3467 | 3 months ago
    excuse me, all of you. have any of the commentators here worn a uniform and witnessed the goings on in afghanistan??, or iraq?? no, you havent. I have. how about instead of once again trying to turn this incident against the u.s., why dont we remember that one tiny little detail about the damn taliban and how they were deliberately forcing the work to be done by civilians. do we forget this accidentally?? no i think not. we are a bunch of little tiny children that deliberately turn our face away from the important little details that dont suit our part of the argument!! dont we??!! grow up cowards. the taliban and al queda and the countless others like that will always hide behind cuvilians deliberately to make anyone attacking them look bad. open your eyes to the facts and quit bitching about the things you want to be the reality. youre full of yesterdays excrement, your arguments are baselees, your complaints and whining are non-fact based garbage.
  • Reply By purefitri purefitri | 3 months ago
    To parker3467: Have you check their amunition? Do they have enoguh guns, rockets and bombs to figh the USA back fairly? Do they have enough troops and soldiers like what your country has? They don't. It's really an incompatible war. Aren't you feel ashamed for this? Of course not. At least, no for the time being. Those civillians are the weapons themselves, because they don't have enough. You can burn up their mosques, their houses, their schools, but the spirit will never die. They do have the spirit. They are fighting you for a reason. I don't think you (and the poor soldiers) have a solid reason for fighting in Afghanistan.
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    No one says the Taliban aren't a bunch of vicious thugs, the actual real Taliban who were fundamentalist extremists, as opposed to the variety of bandit groups and militant outfits you have now that are all lumped under the same name, but that two wrongs don't make a right and NATO ends up killing a few thousand civilians a year in a misguided attempt to pass a pipeline through that country, all the while supporting a puppet government in a sham democracy and lying about human rights. They're just as bad. Don't you get it?
  • Posted By parker3467 parker3467 | 3 months ago
    and p.s. michael moore, and his gutless wonder supporters can step up to the gates of hell and cry about how the u.s. is responible for how hot it is in hell. i just hope they stand there in their liberal stupidity long enough for me to give them the final boot to their fat backsides right through the door.
  • Posted By purefitri purefitri | 3 months ago
    My Prediction: U.S.A. will suffer from the impacts of its government's policy toward moslem's countries. When? Only God knows. At that time, there will be no moslem terrorists (I doubt it if they are exist, anyway) The U.S.A. number one enemy will be its own citizens. How? Only God knows. So, U.S.A. will be cracked down by its own people, right in their own theritory. And mind you!!! They are not moslems!!!!PS: Michael Moore may have the answer of this)
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  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Hi TC Yeah as I remember putting that pipeline into Georgia to circumvent Russia is what started all the alk of war there.http://www.alternet.org/world/139983/pipeline-istan:_everything_you_need_to_know_about_oil,_gas,_russia,_china,_iran,_afghanistan_and_obama/?page=entire
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    broteem We also do not have clean hands in Iran either or anywhere else in the world it seems. We the people have good intentions it is the Government trying to impress their will that always backfires and makes me not trust our past battles and wars!
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Hi mona it is all purposely confusing , everything so one segment or another can confuse everyone into submission and confusion so they can follow a hidden agenda.Absolutely everything is about oil gas and other energies as Nations for position for the future. I just supplied this link but I will try to embed it here to see if that works yet. It is a good read and if this does not work the link is just above.pipelinestan
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Hi Parker I am afraid you have the wrong audience to start with. Many here are Pakistani's with first hand knowledge. I as well as everyone of my brothers have done our share. Three of my sons are lifers and heavily decorated and between them done more tours in Afghanistan and Iraq than they even know by now. Any way it is a hell of a lot deeper and more convoluted than you or most know or the Government will admit too. I supplied one link above but hold on never mind I can't get it without losing this. This will tell you a lot most do not know and the Government wants to forget. Goggle, we do not have clean hands in Afghanistan.
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    You got it purefitri Most Americans do not know why we are there but you will if you read the link I just sent. It is all about energy. Also IED's and suicide bombers are their high tech weapons and the equalizer to what the west wrongly thinks is their superior Army. It starts from the gut and those guys are born for war and now that it is the infidels again, good luck to all our sons!
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    changez you get it I just wish we could get the majority to get it but they never will because of the enabling lies.
  • Posted By alphard alphard | 3 months ago
    stop the possible war and pls no ww3 i hope
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Hi alphard WW3 is exactly what Bush was instigating for in what I call his forever war. I hoped Obama could avoid it but not if we get involved with Iran. That is precisely the reason he diverted from Afghanistan to attack Iraq to get us back in the middle east.
  • Posted By parker3467 parker3467 | 3 months ago
    no, i have exactly the audience i wish to address. i went to afghanistan as i stated before. i saw pakistan and all its glory in action. pakistan is one of the few terrorist states left and they know it. you hear me you spineless cowards?? ive been to your part of the world, i have seen YOU doing what you do best.youre cowards and liars. dont try to tell me anything about my country. i know who you are. you wont fool me or anyone like me. we know YOU very well. and dont tell me about your kids and thier medals. medals are nothing more than feel good crap. i have a GODDAMN box FULL of medals. and dont tell me about the unfairness of war. you should have thought of that before you started giving aid and comfort to terrorist coward filth that kills innocent people just for the sake of killing. i dont give a dead rats backside about how unfair it is that the poor taliban doesnt have enough weaponry or manpower. they and you should have thought of that BEFORE the united states was attacked. and to be perfectly honest, i dont have a problem with muslims of any kind. i have a problem with the terrorist coward filth that hides behind them. so you can take your high and mighty opinion and shove it in your miserable little sand cake maker. and to be expicitely clear, im not a huge supporter of this conflict myself. but thats only because my government isnt stepping up to the plate and waging a real war. ive spent more of my time helping and supporting afghani and iraqi people and soldiers than i ever care to remember. i watched as pakistani and irani cowards murdered innocent iraqis and afghanis just because they were in the way. and i had the distinct pleasure of terminating the filth from pakistan and iran. i never had a single problem with anyone from anywhere, until i saw in person just how much people from that part of the world value life and freedom. which would be the same value as i have for a bag of dog crap.
  • Posted By broteem broteem | 3 months ago
    Please! Decisive 'No' to any War from all of us! Please!
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    No you do not you have not even earned a forum to speak, end of conversation. Feel free to continue to play with yourself! You have my vote broteem I just wish what we thought mattered!
  • Posted By parker3467 parker3467 | 3 months ago
    no not end of conversation. typical liberal coward. you want to shut up, you do that, i speak my mind as i have earned the right to so. i dont need a forum, a box, or your approval for anything. and i certainly dont give a damn if ive earned anything you might consider worth earning. you definition of worth is worth about as much as you are. nothing. you are a dishonorable traitor and a coward. you dishonor your sons, and your self by even opening your mouth. however, on the totally flip side of this. what you say does matter, very much. i mean what i say. if it didnt i wouldnt waste my time with you. mr.broteem i do understand your point of view, and i agree wholeheartedly, and i thank you for your attempt at a peacefull request. this i respect more than you know.
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    The US is forging an empire, of which Pakistan is meant to be the next regional headquarters, and you think people here are happy about it? I know many people whose point of life is to take back this country. Frankly I don't think they'd appreciate being called a coward. I honestly sense that you're not a bad person, or you're someone with a strong sense of right and wrong who has been exposed to some horrible and confusing things. Pakistanis have no appreciation for the Taliban or terrorist elements in our country, and despise our erstwhile leadership, but they have the guns and are willing to use them on us. Unfortunately, and this is the point, since they are also willing to kiss US butt, they are well liked, supported, feted etc. by the US govt. The average man is now so burdened with poverty he has little ability to fight for his rights or stand up against these penis's. That leaves a very few people who are trying to change this situation at their own risk, so I'd appreciate it if you didn't dump the whole nation in as cowards, though you may call me one, because I know many brave and strong people who risk prison, murder, home and family to stand up for law, order, justice and human rights here. And please restrict your use of the term 'terrorist state' because that definition can certainly expand to include many other countries. Let's end the enmity here and maybe you can write to us about your experience in Afghanistan and what you saw. I'm sure that info could be used here.
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    You're a goo0d man changez!
  • Posted By broteem broteem | 3 months ago
    now it is time to talk more and I feel I am fortunate to have so many friends around me or I have chanced to be within them. now it is time to think more and address my thoughts to my friends, to my friends who are gifted with such good and brave heart. now it is time, it is just midnight at Kharagpur Railway town in the West Bengal state of Eastern India, yes, it is time to sing again the great 'IMAGINE' of John Lennon or to sing aloud ' I think as I please and this gives me pleasure' borrowing from Pete Seegar. now it is time to request every one, with the sincerest humbleness and never like a coward simultaneously: No more, no more, no more a war please!
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Excellent broteem! My thoughts are definitely with you. Singing imagine will definitely have you in a melancholy mood.
  • Posted By parker3467 parker3467 | 3 months ago
    TO MR CHANGES. yes i cencede some of what you say, and to clarify my anger, no i do not focus my anger on innocents such as the everyday people of pakistan or other countries in that area. for leaving my comments to be interpreted in that way i sincerely apologize to any that take it that way. to also further clarify what i DO focus my anger on i simply say this; it is completly focused on the governments and militaries of that section of the world. i sincerely thank you for your attempt to reason as you brought my attention to this detail in my statements. the every day people of any part of this small world are the focus of my empathy and my want to help them, not hatred.
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    Thank you for clarifying your point of anger. Just so you know, all governments everywhere, with one or two notable exceptions, suck. So lets have at for what they are and forget about all this nonsense stuff, shall we.
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 3 months ago
    Bingo Changez my man that is it. Excellent, both of you!
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