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The Death Panels

Wasilla : AK : USA | 3 months ago  
Views: 1,099

Yes, that is exactly what Sarah Palin is saying the health care reform bill will bring into the United States. She recently posted this entry on her Facebook page:

"As more Americans delve into the disturbing details of the nationalized health care plan that the current administration is rushing through Congress, our collective jaw is dropping, and we're saying not just no, but hell no!

"The Democrats promise that a government health care system will reduce the cost of health care, but as the economist Thomas Sowell has pointed out, government health care will not reduce the cost; it will simply refuse to pay the cost. And who will suffer the most when they ration care? The sick, the elderly, and the disabled, of course. The America I know and love is not one in which my parents or my baby with Down syndrome will have to stand in front of Obama's ‘death panel' so his bureaucrats can decide, based on a subjective judgment of their "level of productivity in society," whether they are worthy of health care. Such a system is downright evil.

"Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion."

Huh? What is she talking about? Americans have no "death panels" - no one, not sick nor elderly nor disabled stand before a panel to quantify their worthiness for health care. Has she lost her mind?

Unfortunately, Ms. Palin once again has started talking before she formulated a solid train of thought in her brain. What Sarah is referring to is the discussion, in the plan currently under consideration, that would allow a health care professional (doctor) to schedule (and bill) an "advanced care planning consultation" every five years with his/her patient. This discussion could include points such as end of life care, but more importantly the type of care they desire (living wills, advanced directives, remaining in their home, etc.)

Why does this scare Sarah Palin and many conservatives? I can't answer that. You see, I have had these discussions with my children and my doctor. I have a living will. I am listed as the one who can make the decisions on my parents' behalf as per their living wills/advanced directives. This gives me, my parents, and many others a voice in the process when that physical voice may be gone.

Does it mean that I will "pull the plug" on my parents prematurely? Absolutely not. Have they given up all decision-making abilities now? I guarantee not. My parents (aged 72 and 74) realize that I will only make those decisions when required. They can make any changes - even to the point of rescinding the documents - at any time.

Are we back to the "doom and gloom" scare tactics? Sarah, tell me what is so threatening about having candid discussions with a doctor about the inevitable end of life we will all face? No one is suggesting that this aspect of the health care reform bill will put a price on peoples' lives or quality thereof. Only you (and a few other fearmongers) are suggesting such morbidity.

Ms. Palin states "Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion". I could not agree more. How can we better affirm the human dignity of an individual than addressing the end of life discussion while the person is healthy and capable of making sane decisions for themselves.

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Blogs
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  • Blog Source: www.suzyb.org
    Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center of any health care discussion. Palin's statement serves as a good reminder of what it really means to be pro-life. ...
  • Blog Source: healthcare.change.org
    Second, health reform would address an equally fundamental dilemma of human dignity and human rights: millions of people's lack of access to basic care. Many of these people are disabled or live with chronic illnesses. ... she omitted one category:
  • Blog Source: delong.typepad.com
    Sarah Palin has no decency." Harold: >Have You No Decency?: To be clear, it is downright evil to establish a “death panel” that decides who is allowed to live based on their “level of productivity in society.” Less clear what the heck ...
  • Blog Source: rightwingsparkle.blogspot.com
    Sarah Palin Many say that "death panel" is a gross exaggeration. But I was reading Charles Lane in the WaPo, who at first saw that sort of talk as rubbish, and wondered why Democratic strategists were hesitant to refute these kind of ...
  • Blog Source: www.huffingtonpost.com
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  • Blog Source: schott.blogs.nytimes.com
    Sarah Palin's uncompromising description of the bureaucrats she claims will ration treatment under Barack Obama's health care plan. ... Health care by definition involves life and death decisions. Human rights and human dignity must be at the center
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  • Posted By gijoey gijoey | 3 months ago
    You can't answer why the government killing old people because they're you know, OLD, is a BAD thing?
    No, never mind, I'm sure you see nothing wrong with murdering the unborn either.

    Palin is a great American, and I hope she can rescue this dimming nation from our illegitimate Kenyan president.
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    GIJOEY, Which OLD people is the government killing? I missed that memo - this health care reform suggests nothing of euthanizing anyone, let alone OLD people.

    Murdering the unborn? Last I checked, a woman's right to decisions regarding her body is legal in the US. Whether I AGREE with the Roe v Wade decision is moot here - I was not presenting a view on abortion - only on the health care reform presentation.

    As for Palin being a great American - tell me about her policies in Alaska regarding the OLD people. Once again, she is saying one thing and doing another.

    "The Anchorage Daily News reported back on July 14th, 2009 about state run health programs. The programs were intended to help disabled and elderly people in Alaska with their daily lives and was so poorly managed that 'the state cannot assure the health and well-being of the people they are supposed to serve, a new federal review found.'

    "The situation had become so bad, that the federal government had to forbid the state from signing up new members until the state made some necessary changes to the program.

    "No other state in the Union became under investigation, Alaska was the only state out of the 50 states." [www.examiner.com]

    Does that really sound like a person who gives a damn about OLD people? She had control over the entire state of Alaska and the "evil" government needed to step in to save the people from their leader.

    C'mon, the "big bad government" that Palin rails against is the very institution she wants so badly to be a part of. If this woman thinks she can run the entire country but can't even 1.keep things straight in Alaska, and 2. resigns before her term is over, tell me, how can you defend her and support her?

    And GIJOEY, check the facts - we do not have an "illegitimate Kenyan president" - he is American-born (Hawaii is a state).

    All being said, thanks for stopping by to share your viewpoint. I don't agree with you, but I'm pleased to have you here!
  • Posted By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    "Has she lost her mind?" - That assumes she ever had one.

    The basic point is that the extreme Republicans/Obama haters/Neo-Nazis are so afraid that Obama's plan might actually succeed that they are willing to prevent any serious discussion of its merits and are telling any number of outlandish tales to prevent it. They have already watered down the bill to something that looks like government sponsored insurance rather than health-care and single payer, universal health-care is just totally off the cards, even though it makes total sense, is eminently practical and just doesn't work they way they say it does. This new plan is not all that great from what I can see, but its not that different from the old scheme anyway.

  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    Frankly, I'm tired of being labeled a Neo-Nazi, merely because I'm a Republican; the Nazis were a socialist workers party, which is waaayyy to the left. It was their brethren in Italy, the fascists who were right wingers... if you're gonna make ignorant statements, at least get your political labels correct. If you want to go from that to the imbecilic notion that Republicans are fascists, you obviously have no notion of what fascism is, but hey, why would that stop you?

    Never let the truth stand between you your desire to use cute, progressive labels just because they suit you...
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    Sorry if you feel that I was maligning all republicans, however I was only speaking of the extreme right and the slashes were meant to indicate three distinctly different groups. I agree I could have phrased it better to avoid misunderstanding. However, I do understand this, that the majority of republicans in Congress are so desperate to raise their parties status, they are willing to do and say almost anything to make Obama out to be a left-wing President rather than a political centrist. Opposition to his health care bill has been largely speculative and based on exaggerations (where not outright lies) and misinformation, as well as bad comparisons with countries that have free universal health-care.

    As for the Nazi's, they called themselves the national socialists but were more state capitalists, with the state owning means of production, rather than providing a welfare state. In their totalitarian political system and mechanisms for government they closely resembled other totalitarian systems, just more rigorous and efficient. Totalitarianism is inherently anathema to real socialists, but the economic model has been used by totalitarian systems before. As far as I can see, fascists are pleasure seekers, but that is a borrowed definition and I would like to debate that with you.
  • Reply By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    Fireisle, I respect you as a Republican and do not resort to "name-calling". You, and your views, are always welcome here on my page - I appreciate the viewpoint you bring.

    All are welcome - even Republicans! LOL

    Thanks for stoppiing by~
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    Thanks... I sincerely apeciate the support.. *lol*
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    I agree that the health care reform has morphed into something that will not make grand changes, and it might just make things stickier. Obama came in with positive ideas and has compromised this into chaos. The entire program (old and new) should be scrapped and call a "do over".

    Regarding the hate rhetoric, I believe a quote from "An American President" sums it up best...

    "Bob's problem isn't that he doesn't get it. Bob's problem is that he can't sell it! We have serious problems to solve, and we need serious people to solve them. And whatever your particular problem is, I promise you, Bob Rumson is not the least bit interested in solving it. He is interested in two things and two things only: making you afraid of it and telling you who's to blame for it. That, ladies and gentlemen, is how you win elections."

    Unfortunately this is what I am seeing in our current political climate and it is not attractive. Time to stop the "Us vs. Them" game!
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    Doing that would require a massive rethink of US politics in general. Unfortunately things don't often work in real life like they do in the movies and I agree with you that the whole plan now needs to be scrapped and rehashed, because this does not look like achieving anything. The US is becoming a country where the rich are going to try and stay rich and keep the rest under their thumbs while they try to make money abroad. It is a sad thing, but very usual for expansionist regimes.
  • Reply By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    Changez, I wish I could disagree with you...but I can't!
  • Posted By BorderExplorer BorderExplorer | 3 months ago
    I thought about becoming a Palin Twitter "follower" or a Facebook "friend" to keep tabs on her. But then I said to myself: "Nah!"
  • Reply By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    Billie, I didn't know you were a masochist - and there is really no reason to "keep tabs on her" - she gets in front of the camera every chance she gets! The truly sad thing is, she doesn't realize the mess she creates for herself. She believes everyone else "doesn't get it"...
  • Posted By Redhanded101 Redhanded101 | 3 months ago
    I think the message she is sending out has alot of validity to it. While they may not be called Death Panels, the concept is the same. Medical advisory Commissions or Boards will ultimately make decisions on how to best spend healthcare dollars. In case anyone needs prove right here in the US that this sort of thing will be commomplace once Nationalized Medicine becomes law, you need not look further than Oregon and the Story of Barbara Wagner who was offered assisted suicide instead of the chemotherapy medicine that she needed to continue to treat her cancer. What is that called? Sounds a lot like a Death Panel decision to me. When you have this type of Socialized medicine system like Oregon does, there is no getting around the fact that there will be rationing and these bureaucrats that sit on these panels will have to decide who is worth living or dying. The fact that it came out od Sarah Palin's mouth should not matter. As a matter of fact I applaud her for having the guts that many of our lawmakers seem to have left at home. Let's not all pretend that Sociliazed medicine will come with all this baggage. If you do, you may wind up in a similiar situation as Barbara Wagner.
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    I sill don't see why there is so much opposition to the idea of the federal government lending money to states to build hospitals which can provide substantive and subsidised health care in collusion with the pharmaceuticals industry. I would just make things simpler and easier to get care. The main point being that pharm. companies have to be willing to cut down on profits in the benefit of public health, but that could be traded for r&d grants or tax-holidays from the federal govt.
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    This entire discussion has the aura of the Kevorkian horror tales of the late '90s when all the fear and hype that assisted suicide would be the norm. Fear ruled as people hypothesised that doctors would be administering "death cocktails" to the elderly and affirmed without their consent.

    I appreciate your view, Redhanded, however I think this too is complete hype. There must be an overhaul of a system that, for much too long, has imprisoned the uninformed and uncaring public.

    It doesn't matter that it came from Sarah Palin's mouth - but the concern is that it is facts are being misconstrued, misrepresented, and misinterpreted to the detriment of the American public. Look around - town hall meetings are filed with hate, violence, and fear allowing no discussion or education of those who this type of reform will impact most closely.

    Thanks for your comments...
  • Reply By Redhanded101 Redhanded101 | 3 months ago
    alexandra,

    When Dr. Kevorkian was aiding people with assisted suicides, many people thought he was crossing the line and it was immoral. Now you have some states and possibly an entire country looking at this practice as a viable option to rationa medicine and control costs. This is already happening in Oregon. Obama himself has said that the end game is to move to a single payer system. The Public option of this plan will be the ticket to get them there. Barney Frank has confessed to this. There is no denying the intent. There is still no answer to how this will be paid, or how much it will cost and there is growing dissatisfaction over how this very important issue has been handled by lawmakers. The system is working well for about 85% of the people as the polls indicate. Franklly, until they put some language in this bill about tort reform and take out the Public option, this bill will not pass. We need reform, but it has to be bipartisan and not a ram job by Democrats.
  • Reply By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    I agree that it must be bipartisan - and that is not an issue with either party entirely, but by BOTH parties collectively.

    As for looking at "assisted suicide" as a "viable option to ration medicine and control costs" - I think not. "Some states and possibly an entire country" may not be seeing this as an option to control costs - but to make decisions about their own care - their END OF LIFE care. Exactly what the Obama plan is proposing.

    Too many of us have seen bodies hooked up to machines (and I say bodies as the spirit has long departed). Worse case scenario for some is the lingering of bodily functions after the spirit has gone. End of Life care addresses these issues.

    That is only one part of the mix. Perhaps the "system" is working for 85% of the people - but what of the 15% for which it isn't - and the untold number that are not counted by the poll. Look at hospital emergency rooms filled with non-insured, the number of people who lost health care due to layoffs/downsizing/shut downs. These are the people who are being tossed aside as unimportant.

    I cannot disagree that this reform measure has become a true mess - but, Redhanded, you and I agree that reform is needed. Thank you for input on items I had not addressed earlier. We all need to work together!
  • Reply By Redhanded101 Redhanded101 | 3 months ago
    Alexandra,

    There is common ground to work around. I just wish that our lawmakers can put aside their ideologies and petty differences and really put in reform that both sides can agree on. I am for Reform but not for revamping the entire system. I will use a basball analogy if I may - When a team underperforms and dissapoints many of it fans, the owners almost never gets rid of all its players and brings in all new ones. In some cases they bring in a new manager, or add a player or two who fills in the deficiences of the team . They keep their core players that do a good job and add the pieces necessary to make them better. So in the case of Healthcare, the same train of thought could apply. We know the system has failed some. We know there are some core components that work. So let's go out and put in place pieces thta will make the system work better, i.e. (Tort Reform, Tax Credits, additional interstate commerce). Let's not revamp the entire system .
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    My solution is to fix it for the 15% who are having problems, and leave the other 85% alone with what they have, instead of overhauling the entire system with the end intent of putting everyone, whether they like it or not, on a one-payer system;

    I'm curious; have you done the math and determined what your health care premiums will be under the plan? Take the time to do it, if you have not, and then let's talk about it. If you're in the middle class, or lower middle class, you'll find that Obama's plan is considerably more expensive than if you pay your own premiums to an independent insurer.

    If you're "lucky" enough to make such a small income that your premiums are reasonable, count on staying there, because the increase in premiums is severe, and will never let you get ahead, even if you increase your financial situation considerably.

    It's not unreasonable to expect, for instance, the you could conceivably get a new job, making $10,000/year more than your current one, and lose most or all of it to your health care insurance premiums adjustment... and still be liable for 30% of your medical costs, up to $5000.00 (single) or $10,000 (family)

  • Posted By EddieBuddha3 EddieBuddha3 | 3 months ago
    The most significant moment here is that Ms. Palin has employed the code-word 'evil' in her posting.

    Whenever the Right wants to have license to do whatever they want to do to a person, or people, or even an entire nation, they use that word. It's an absolutism, there is no gray area, no subtleties of gradation. Evil is always irredeemable, and therefore it's permissible to engage in any extremism in order to eradicate it.

    G.W. Bush used the absolutism in his "Axis of Evil" speech, condemning roughly 130 million people as 'evil' and using that as part of his justification for invading Iraq.

    And we all know how that turned out, er? To date, an estimated quarter million civilian casualties in both Iraq and Afghanistan.

    It's the extremist wing of the Republicans in their slash-n-burn tactics of stopping anything positive Obama might accomplish.

    Palin is nothing more than an attack dog for them.
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    I agree it was a bad choice of words, and I agree it paints with too broad a brush; other than that, however, I think she's spot on; there's no way to really tell what the final word on treatment or non-treatment will be, because it's in the and of the administrators, and they haven't been appointed yet. If they'd just go in and put the guarantees in writing, such as guarantees against being denied coverage due to health, age, etc, and a guarantee that those who do not ever wish to participate will never be forced to do so, either directly or indirectly, a lot of people might be a little more open to addressing the rest of it. I think it's the ambiguity that's written into the bill that has most people worried, along with the schedule of premiums, which are a train wreck waiting to happen...

    Currently Obama is doing for health care what Bush did for war in the Middle East...
  • Reply By Redhanded101 Redhanded101 | 3 months ago
    I am glad you brought this up because Obama has learned his lessons well. He has stuck to the playbook by demonizing the insurance companies, Doctors & pharmacuticals in order to justify his "takeover of the healthcare for coincidently 130 million people". The extremist wing of the Liberal party in their win at all costs non partisan approach will not consider any Republican ideas to Fix Healthcare.

    Palin is the voice of many lawmakers who are afraid to voice their true concerns for fear of backlash from the Obama/Rahm Emanuel hit squad.
    I appreciate your comments, but this is a ram job and we all know it.
  • Reply By Changez Changez | 3 months ago
    Perhaps you should check out this link. I ma not sure it wil change your mind about anything, but it may give you a broader perspective on th issue and some more information.

    http://tpmcafe.talkingpointsmemo.com/talk/blogs/jane_blevins/2009/08/getting-cancer-in-a-hell-hole.php?ref=fpd

    There are a few more like it if you would like to see them.
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    Once "labeling" happens (pick your favorite - Evil, Terrorism, Neo-Nazi, etc.) the conversation ends. There is no way to "discuss" anything and find commonalities and differences. Even though many of us in this comment line are of different thoughts and leanings. For the most part, it has remained civil and has given me many new glimpses into the siutation.

    Why can't the "fanatics" (meaning those who will not discuss - only scream at the top of their lungs at the problem) see there is room for discussion by looking at the facts and beliefs from alternative venues.

    I hope the discussion doesn't end - but I am SO THANKFUL for all who have chimed into this topic. Let's keep this up and model it to the rest of the country!
  • Posted By JerrySatire JerrySatire | 3 months ago
    It seems to me, the right -wing is still in shock that Obama won the election, soo, they attack, attack and attack. He wasn't born in America, he wants to kill seniors, the health bill is a single payer bill, Mr. Greenjeans is un-American and on, and on and on and on.
    American, Obama, won the election. Get over it!!
    JerrySatire
    www.Lampoon.net
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    I believe Barack Obama brought much of the country together during the campaign and following the inauguration. However now the nit-picking, partisanship is driving a wedge in the center of HOPE... He will remain our president for the next three and one-half years (as I seriously doubt he will resign halfway through) - so people, deal with it!

    Thanks, Jerry! You always bring me back to my senses on the important stuff!
  • Posted By vernoncrumrine vernoncrumrine | 3 months ago
    In Palin's own words...she needs to "stop makin' things up". Plus she needs to sit down, shut up and just leave the building. And yes, that's terribly harsh, and probably very politically incorrect, but true...
  • Reply By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    Vernon, you cut through the crap and say it like it is...thanks for stopping by!
  • Posted By vandilch vandilch | 3 months ago
    My grandmother is scared to death about being killed by the government.
    She's telling everyone she knows that Obama wants anyone over 80 to just take pain medication and pain. No surgery, etc.

    She's literally on Glenn Beck's mailing list, and he sends pamphlets out for this exact purpose.

    Truth in politics was always hard to come by, but the Right is doing everything in their power to eviscerate every last shred of it.
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    Unfortunately, it's not impossible; none of the current versions of the bill have any written guarantees that it won't happen exactly that way, which is a large part of the problem. It's left intentionally ambiguous, so they can make desired modifications as they go, primarily because the fast track approach only allowed time to offer a sketch work of a reform bill. For many of us, it will have to be fleshed out, with much more specific language and written guarantees before we can support it or anything like it.
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    It is a shame that the ones most closely affected by mistruths are the ones that are being targeted for this information. By scaring the older population, the hope is that all will buy the lies.

    Glenn Beck has gotten his 15 minutes of fame...and not in a good way.

    I hope you are able to ease your grandmother's mind with truth! The government does not want to kill her...
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    I'm not a big Glen Beck fan, but I don't think any body's mind will be eased until we see a bill with specific guarantees in writing instead of vague descriptions, no? All of the current legislation, as offered, has a great deal of vulnerability to the possibility of bureaucratic abuse. It needs more concrete definition.
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    But can you agree, Firesisle, the atmosphere to discuss the nuances of this reform bill is not in the venue to shouting constiuents where politicians are defensively protecting their own a$$es?
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    I would agree absolutely. It's time to ditch the current bill, rewrite it with bipartisan participation, rather than having it created by one party. Many of the guarantees I'm talking about were offered as amendments by Republicans, but they were immediately thrown out. I don't think this will be possible, however as long as Pelosi runs the House.
  • Posted By alexandraames alexandraames | 3 months ago
    Firesisle, I truly find it hard to believe that any of this can be pinned on any one specific person (Democrat or Republican). We must ALL work together to fix the problems of this economy.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 3 months ago
    I agree with you; bipartisanship is absolutely essential. Unfortunately, Pelosi has a distinct agenda, and is in a position of leadership that enables that agenda; she is the one who must encourage bipartisanship, but so far, she's done everything she could to keep the Republicans out of the loop, and totally uninvolved; they were specifically excluded from any input on the writing of the stimulus package, and they were summarily dismissed if they offered amendments to the health care bill.

    Pelosi is a control freak, and wants the Republicans completely out of the picture.
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