Poll Details: A Majority of Americans Oppose Both Wars

Interesting. If the public can exert enough pressure, they might be able to influence the underlying policy of reconstruction in the wars, and actually achieve what could be called something like a victory.

While in Iraq, the only thing that might help is to give/pay the Iraqi's a huge amount of money in indemnity or wipe of Iraqi debt ot allow that country to begin reconstruction, a pull out as soon as possible is probably the best thing to do.

But the situation in Afghanistan is far more fluid and different strategy could actually achieve something there. A focus on development activity and removing power from the various governors of the provinces (read warlords) and giving more authority to the elected representatives needs to go along with the development of a decent and well organised social services provision department, that can supervise building schools etc, and make it a wholly separate arm of the government, recognising that Afghanistan has special needs as a country.

A focus on that and on developing sustainable and profitable farming practices could help over time to rebuild Afghanistan into a proper state. Otherwise it will just remain a backwater. That, of course, is all based on the assumption that the ISAF actually gives adamn about the people of Afghanistan or the country and rebuilding it. Otherwise the Taliban will never be defeated in that country and will just come back to take over at some point when all the warlords start fighting it out with each-other again.

I think pulling out in Iraq is probably the best thing to do as well, but have we accomplished whatever we went into Iraq for in the first place? I'm asking because I don't remember why we went to war against Iraq to begin with, and I think pulling out after these six years without having even succeeded in the original goal or at least some goal would make the whole attempt fruitless.

Your proposal for reconstruction in Afghanistan is, I think, quite helpful and on-target. Afghanistan will never be a stable country if we do not defeat the Taliban in that country. Warlords and insurrection and divided ideas will continue to rip the country apart if we don't step in at the very foundation ofits politics and economy, the pillars that make a stable nation stand up, and rebuild the deteriorating country. Should we not do this in Iraq as well? Or are there complications with people saying Iraq is not in need of reconstruction? If not the whole country of Iraq or its foundations of politics and economy, perhaps other countries should step in and resolve the religious issues that tear THAT country apart.

The problem with these ideas of reconstruction is that unless it comes from the Afghan population, they will never truly consider the 'foundations' of the country's politics and economy to be truly owned by them. By forcibly removing leaders further exacerbates the conception that the West has 'imposed' these foundations. You could certainly argue that there has been precendent, in Central America for instance, but Afghanistan's political and administrative disjuncture, not to mention ideological differences places it in its own unique category.

Gordon Brown recently criticised the Afghan army for not contributing enough troops to supporting those British ones that have currently just concluded Operation Panther's Claw, and this highlights the problem. The dometic implications of involvement by the US and UK in particular in both countries is such that they can't commit the man power or money towards fundamental reconstruction, because that is not only unpalatable to electorates, but utterly unrealistic.

@Changez: I think you're right in highlighting the fact that no country truly gives a damn enough to obliterate the Taliban, assuming that is even possible. Nato's involvement cannot continue indefinitely. Nation construction as an ideal, applied to a country such as Afghanistan, is one fundamentally flawed beyond repair.

One of the main problems in this situation is that people still view Afghanistan as a normal country, or rather that it is a country. It has not been a country for two decades now, and the majority of the population have never seen the state structure that would define it as such. They have no education, no services, nothing at all that would define a state. The borders are defined by neighbouring sates more than the Afghan state.

Afghanistan is a special case and needs special formulations to make it a country again. Democracy, etc. are worthless over there since there is no mechanism to implement policy. Making the mechanism is most important, then things will start to change, if you see my meaning. The Afghan people will be willing to go along with it, if it brings positive change to their lives.

War in general should be opposed by any an everyone. War is dumb, worthless and hurtful on so many different levels and what has war ever really solved? Nothing!

To me, war has always been a "who can hold out the longest" contest. As in, which country can stand to have its people slowly slaughtered and its economy gradually depleted and its morale torn away at by gunpowder and machine gun shells and tear gas and other highly inhumane and terrible weapons. In the end, no problem really IS solved at all. The whole process was just to get one side to concede and give in. What problem is solved if I threaten to hurt you if you don't agree with me and then I go through and carry out said plan of attack?

However, I can understand another side where pro-war supporters say that what else can we do when the other side doesn't concede and they are clearly in the wrong?

I don't know. It is a complicated issue because countries that go to war are both incredibly powerful and stubborn and both won't back down until they get what they want or until they are shown that they cannot protect their beliefs because they "lose in war".

The Afghan war is also opposed in most countries that have troops in Afghanistan. Just recently opinion has turned negative in Britain. Views were already negative in Canada. However, there is enough money being made by the military industrial complex that negative public opinion is not likely to sway Obama to quit Afghanistan. Quite the opposite Obama is increasing the number of troops in Afghanistan and also the number of drone attacks in Pakistan. Of course voting Republican would hardly help!!!