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Bashing the West

Abu Dhabi : United Arab Emirates | 4 months ago  
Views: 2,229
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Muslim Bashing

There are some Muslims who like to engage in what can only be described as "Muslim-bashing." But they pretend to carry the mantle of enlightenment. They would like you to believe that they are the enlightened and progressive ones, and those that disagree with them are "regressive," "ignorant," and "opportunistic." They lay the blame for the Danish cartoon controversy squarely on the shoulders of Muslims. They decry the "opportunistic" Muslims who are interested only in "West-bashing." These Muslims believe that since they have a Muslim parent, have had a Muslim upbringing, and have read a few books on Islam, they have the immunity from being called out on their Islamophobia.

I'll try to educate these people on why the Muslim reaction to China cracking down the Uighurs was relatively muted. Until the 1980's, China used to be a third world country; it presented itself as the leader of the Third World. There used to a thing called "Third World solidarity." Ordinary people living in developing countries across the world used to feel a sense of connectedness to others who had also historically been colonized and exploited by the industrialized world. China is no longer a developing country; it is a rising power. But the "Third World solidarity" still exists in some quarters. People in the third world think that "if China can make it, so we all can."

China is a beacon of hope for the developing world. Since many Muslim countries fall under the broad category of "third world," many Muslims are reluctant to criticize China. For the same reason, many Muslims are reluctant to criticize India for the crimes that she has committed (and continues to commit) against Muslims in Kashmir. India was also a third world country once. It was a member of the Non-Aligned Movement. Today, we are seeing both China and India progress rapidly and become more integrated into the world community. Nobody wants to criticize their role model(s).

Also, China is seen as a potential counter-weight to the United States. This might be hard for Westerners and the self-hating Muslims to understand. Since the end of the Cold War, we've been living in a unipolar world. The United States has been the sole superpower for about 20 years. There is no balance of power today like there was when the Soviet Union was around. Although Russia is no longer a superpower, it is also seen as a potential counter-weight to the US. Russia has a seat on the UN Security Council; thus, it wields enormous influence. As a result, there is a reluctance of the part of many Muslims to criticize Russia for the crimes that she has committed (and continues) to commit against Muslims in Chechnya.

Furthermore, the West has a colonial history. Of course, Denmark does not. So one might ask, "Why should Denmark have to pay a price for British and French colonialism?" And this is a fair point. But unfortunately, Denmark is seen as part of "the West," and the crimes of colonial Britain and colonial France are bound to be transferred to Denmark in the eyes of the developing world. I believe this to be unfair, but it's a reality. China and Russia have also done their fair share of colonizing (both historically and presently). Russia continues to occupy Dagestan and Chechnya, two Muslim-majority areas. China continues to occupy Xinjiang (which is a Muslim-majority area), and Tibet (which is a Buddhist-majority area). India continues to occupy Kashmir, a Muslim-majority area.

But this colonialism cannot be compared to Western colonialism. Russia, China, and India are occupying areas that have historically been within their sphere of influence. Even when the Soviet Union was still around, it only occupied areas around Russia-proper (whether in Eastern Europe or Central Asia). Russia did not cross the ocean to occupy territory on which it had no prior influence, and neither did China nor India. The British, the French, the Italians, and the Dutch sailed to the other side of the globe and occupied parts of Asia, Africa, and the Middle East. Before the self-hating Muslims whine about "West-bashing," they must read up on their history and try to understand the geopolitical reasons for this "West-bashing."

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Posted By myVox myVox | 4 months ago
swinginjazzz,

Nicely rounded up the topic & brought it to Western occupation of territories that are in no way their own!

I woudn't agree though with your statement that India is occupying Kashmir, the same way that I do not believe that exists a POK! To me, it was all settled the moment Pakistan & India became two different countries.

The status quo is there to continue & we should move on leaving behind the animosities!!
Reply By swinginjazzz swinginjazzz | 4 months ago
Agreed!
Reply By myVox myVox | 4 months ago
But the politicians do not agree! They always have an axe to grind or the other. Posted an image just now which brings about the classic ChindoPak equation - as per cartoonist R K Laxman!
Posted By imissbubby imissbubby | 4 months ago
The religion of Islam needs to be destroyed. Not the people; the religion. Its devasting to the people.
Reply By Ibrahim_mahmood Ibrahim_mahmood | 4 months ago
lol...thank you for sparing the people...and we may ask how do you propose to destroy the religion of Islam without destroying the people ??
Reply By imissbubby imissbubby | 4 months ago
Yes - We must win their hearts and minds to Christianity. Check out the story on the Hama leader's son who became a Christian and how it changed his life.
Posted By rachnaparmar rachnaparmar | 4 months ago
I agree with myVox. There is no occupation of Kashmir as far as India is concerned. It was acceded to India. The whole partition thing was so futile and reflected the greed of a few politicians. What is the point of having another nation on religious lines when today India has more Muslims than the entire country of Pakistan put together. Our Muslims are Indians and very proud to be so. Please leave them alone and address your own problems.

How can the human rights in India and China be ever equated? It is laughable! China would kill its citizens if they so much as whisper against their government.
Reply By Ibrahim_mahmood Ibrahim_mahmood | 4 months ago
kashmir was acceded to India ??? now thats crazy and when did that happen ??...now should we take your word for it and merge Pakistan into India, in your dreams !!!
Reply By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 4 months ago
For more than hundred years European cousins fought with each other and were responsible to start two world wars, today they are united as a single Nation.
So how can you be sure that Pakistan and India cannot be at peace with each other, be positive, time is the biggest healer.
Reply By rachnaparmar rachnaparmar | 4 months ago
Pls. read the history as aaarif has mentioned, the princely states at the time of partition had signed the Instrument of Accession. Please keep Pakistan to yourself. It is your country and with its own set of problems. We have no interest in adding to our troubles. Don't point fingers at others. Pakistan is "occupying" a part of Kashmir too as aaarif has rightly pointed.

Reply By Ibrahim_mahmood Ibrahim_mahmood | 4 months ago
and what else should we do that aarif says ?....is he some kinda authority on this ?...you people keep on pointing fingers at others and start crying when others point on you....just forget your dreams of glory and feed your hungry first !!!
Reply By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 4 months ago
Agree with your opinion on Kashmir, it was basically due to greed of our politicians that 6 million lives were lost at the time of Partition.Basically there were some agreements made by princely states along with some other decisions taken by MR.McMohan the British surveyor.
The issue was diplomatic and non violent until 1980, but when Russia occupied Afghanistan the scenario changed drastically.
To flush Russians US manufactured Mujahideens (present day Taaliban) and had to turn a blind eye when Pakistan was using them to foment trouble in Kash, which led to loss of lives beyond control.
Posted By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 4 months ago
This article in my opinion has no head or tail, it simply does not make sense to me due to the following reasons.
1. How and who decides that Kashmir, Dagestan, Chechnya are occupied?
Kashmir: Kashmir is occupied by both Pakistan and India, why point out India alone all the time, further if religion was the major factor to decide who owns Kashmir then it has to be borne in mind that India is the second largest Muslim populated nation moreover Pakistan had given up on Bangladesh even though it belonged to it but is fomenting trouble in Kashmir stating that it is a disputed territory despite Shimla accord.It just does not make sense
Russia which was USSR disintegrated due to machinations of USA who did not want to see a strong opponent, Chechnya became disputed for this simple reason. USA had an eye on Caspian sea oil and Chechnya was the means to grab it, goood that Russia succeeded in defeating the rebels.

3.Except tibet I do not think there are other disputed occupations of other nations by China.

Finally we should not forget that most of the nations we see today were created by BRitan more precisely by the surveyor MCMohan, after 1st and 2nd world war, otherwise the world Map would have been quite different.

In my opinion this writer is supporting the same west and bashing Muslims indirectly, because all the stated disputes are of British origin except Chechnya/Dagestan which is of US origin
Posted By rachnaparmar rachnaparmar | 4 months ago
Yeah, you people are self sufficient and very prosperous and no you don't cry at all and take everything in your stride. Your poor are fed and people are literate, right? If you cannot talk decently or have any points to discuss, fine. It reflects on your thinking.

No one is an authority here. This is a forum for people to debate things. So sad that you wish to propagate your hate agenda everywhere! It is beneath me to respond to anything you say.
Posted By rachnaparmar rachnaparmar | 4 months ago
Yeah, you people are self sufficient and very prosperous and no you don't cry at all and take everything in your stride. Your poor are fed and people are literate, right? If you cannot talk decently or have any points to discuss, fine. It reflects on your thinking.

No one is an authority here. This is a forum for people to debate things. So sad that you wish to propagate your hate agenda everywhere! It is beneath me to respond to anything you say.
Posted By Ibrahim_mahmood Ibrahim_mahmood | 4 months ago
our hate agenda ??? ha ha, bibi just look at your comments above and then tell me whoes hate agenda is that ?....get your history straight and then comment !
Reply By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 4 months ago
Ibrahim
Forget to whom Kashmir belongs, but Pakistan's continued politicisation of this issue has harmed Kashmiri's all along, I do not think that is justified.
Pakistan as of today is very weak state which depends on USA for its survival, it is better for that Pakistan to try and become more independant rather than concentrating non issues such as your claims to liberate Kashmir or messing up in Afghanistan
Reply By Ibrahim_mahmood Ibrahim_mahmood | 3 months ago
aarif, it seems you are the only enlightened one and why should we leave Kashmir ?...now why cant India leave kashmiris alone and let them decide for their own, just because you say that kashmir is a part of india it should be left alone and let your security forces rape kashmiri people ?

India only dreams of becoming a regional power by interfering in sri lanka, afghanistan, pakistan and nepal....first it should feed its billions of hungry and then think about something else !!
Reply By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 3 months ago
Thanks
Reply By Ibrahim_mahmood Ibrahim_mahmood | 3 months ago
now we are in agreement, bro ! :)
Reply By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 3 months ago
Bro It is all about the well being of poor Kashmiris, I do not care who leaves what but precious lives should not be lost that's all
Posted By FauziaSultana FauziaSultana | 4 months ago
Excuse me,Pakistan is not weak.Aren't the Pakistan Armed Forces doing a very fine job getting rid of insurgents and trying to bring peace in Swat and its surrounding areas?We are not weak, we're a STRONG nation facing all kinds of difficulties and striving on
Reply By aaarif2 aaarif2 | 3 months ago
I do not mean to indignify Pakistan or Pakistanis, particularly Pakistanis are very resilient, hardworking and innovative people.I had been working alongside Pakistani collegues in Middle East and I have very good friends amongst them.
However Pakistan's governments (military and civilian) had let down their own people and their growth.
Again that should be left to Pakistanis to handle as it is their own country.
When I stated Pak is weak it means not being able to steer their nation by themselves, some of the controls are in outsiders hands which is rather dangerous, the decision making power of a country should reside with its own people.
This has led to resentment by a whole group of peoplwe with whom Pak is at war.
Past cannot be changed, however future is in our hands and for India, it is good to have stronger and resilient Pakistan rather than have weak torbulent social setup which again will have trickle down effect on India.
Posted By Juggernaut180 Juggernaut180 | 4 months ago
You refer to the western powers colonisation, naming France and Britain as the main offenders, but the fact is western colonisation is only most prevalent in the memory by virtue of being the most recent.
Colonisation is a human trait, not purely the sport of western powers. The Ottoman empire was built on conquest and covered vast areas of 3 continents. The Mughal and Safavid were also both Muslim empires founded on conquest of neighbouring regions. Even Genghis Khan has Muslim advisors to help expand his empire.
The difference between the ‘crimes’ of the west in colonisation and the crimes of those Muslim empires preceding them are down only to the passage of time. Maybe in another 1000 years the British empire can be celebrated with the same admiration afforded the Ottomans. Remember, it is the British empire that, built on the industrial revolution, brought the modern world in to being. The rights and wrongs of how this was done are for another time, the fact remains much that was good came from this empire. To therefore use colonisation to beat the west with, as if this is a western agenda persecuting Muslim people, stinks of hypocrisy on the part of the writer.
But I would take exception to imissbubby’s comments that Muslims must be brought to Christianity. A ludicrous suggestion - to make divisions along such religious lines, to suggest people must be of one faith only to solve such problems, and the one correct faith to be Christianity, shows how little progress has been made since the crusades.
People have a right to believe what they wish. Why must Muslims turn to Christianity? I’m a westerner, white, Caucasian, and an atheist. Christianity is no more relevant to me than it is to those following Islam and to try and force it upon Muslims is to pursue the same agenda under a different ideology as those Muslim extremists.
Constantly within this site we have Muslim’s declaring Islam is a faith of peace. I truly believe, at it’s root, that to be the case, and the problems within the faith to be brought by man’s corruption of its underlying message - as happens in Christianity and has done since the Crusades and before. The Spanish inquisitions, anyone?
And as for the post by Fauzia, I agree the efforts of Pakistan are to be congratulated and supported wholeheartedly by all who genuinely want to live in a peaceful, tolerant and accepting world. I truly believe that Pakistan is the great hope for all of us. A Muslim nation openly against terrorism and the perversion of Islam for this end, it has suffered much for its support of the west and opposition to the extremists. If Pakistan fails and falls to the radicals we are headed for serious trouble…
Reply By swinginjazzz swinginjazzz | 4 months ago
Thank you for your thoughtful reply, Sir. I could not agree more with your assertion that Western colonialism is the most recent. There is no hypocrisy on my part. I am willing to acknowledge that people resent what they can remember. My parents come from Pakistan, and my grandparents came from India. India has been invaded countless times by many different people. But we remember the Brits. We're not hypocrites. We're just human. It's human nature to resent the wrongs that you remember.

We can't remember being wronged by the Mughals because none of us were alive at the time. The British colonized India for over 200 years. I would agree with you that there were positive aspects to the British Raj. For example, access to better education. But there were many negatives as well. People's rights were brutally suppressed, their nation's wealth stolen, their natural resources exploited. So one must not gloss over these crimes.

The Ottomans are not admired by the Armenians because the Armenians still remember the fact that one million of their brothers and sisters were murdered in the Armenian Genocide. The Kurds are still resentful of the Turks because of present conditions in the Kurdish parts of Turkey. Iran is viewed negatively by many Arabs because many still remember the Safavid imperialism.

Also, many Hindus and Sikhs view the Mughal Emperor Aurangzeb very negatively due to his radical orthodoxy. So not all of the non-Western colonial powers are viewed positively. And the Western colonial powers are viewed negatively because they are the most recent.

My grandmother is still alive. The British partitioned her country. A million people died in the 1947 Partition. The crimes of the British have had readl consequences. India and Pakistan do not get along. The British also partitioned Israel and Palestine, and that conflict continues as well. So we have real reasons to resent the West because: (i) we can remember, and (ii) the effects are still present.
Reply By Juggernaut180 Juggernaut180 | 3 months ago
Both Western colonisation and Muslim colonisation are the actions of previous generations. Should we continue to persecute the son for the sins of the father?
I appreciate the argument you present, that the hate is felt because the memory is still fresh, but it does little to move us on and can noly continue to create hostility and war.
Is there not a more constructive way to deal with the issue?
Posted By mllovric mllovric | 3 months ago
It is not OK for bashing anyone not only the Muslims because under the
international human rights all men are equal and the same rule stands for everybody. Don't tell me I shouldn't put shit on the rebels because
of them being Muslims. Because once a rebel always a shit. 28/7/2009.
Reported by swinginjazzz
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