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Gun violence rears its ugly head again

Glendale : CA : USA | 6 months ago  
Views: 1,531
  • What Gun Laws are up against!
    What Gun Laws are up against!
    Posted by: slydog
    guns

I am so damn tired of guns.

We have the highest murder rate of any civilized nation and we have the highest rate of incarcerations. Does that mean we're the worst people in the world?

Hardly.

It means that the bad people in our country, the ones who ignore laws, have the easiest time getting guns here than they would in any other nation.

Just a couple of hours ago, a gunman with a shotgun walked into the Holocaust Museum in Washington, D.C., and opened fire. He shot a security guard and possibly one other person before another guard shot and wounded him.

I can already tell you the National Rifle Association's take on this story. The NRA will tell you that the system worked, that the fact the security guard was armed kept the situation from getting even worse. The fact that there were two guns present instead of one saved lives.

The NRA is riding high these days. Even Democrats are afraid to support restrictions on gun laws, because they know the Bubbas and Billy Bobs who own thousands of guns will vote on that one issue alone.

But I believe there will come a time when Americans view the NRA the same way they have come to view the tobacco companies -- as purveyors of death.

I don't care if someone wants a gun to protect their home and family, but the idea of people out walking on the street fully armed is repugnant to me. Why are we the only country of any importance that allows this? It can't be solely because of our Wild West heritage.

I know the NRA sees the Second Amendment as sacred, but the founding fathers never envisioned that people would want fully-automatic weapons capable of shooting down helicopters or stopping tanks.

No matter what Joe Sixpack thinks, he is not capable of holding off the government if the government wants him. All he'll do is kill his neighbors or family in the process.

During the five years I wrote a newspaper column, I made that same remark once. A reader said that maybe Joe couldn't do it by himself, but with his brother Bob and a couple of his neighbors, he might be able to.

That's such a load of crap. All it takes is one small bomb to wipe out Joe's entire block. What restrains the government isn't an armed citizenry, it's public opinion.

I know President Obama regrets his remark last year about bitter people "clinging to their guns," but just because he regrets it doesn't mean it isn't true.

It's time for America to grow up and enter the 20th century.

Yes, I said the 20th century.

Right now we're more than 100 years behind the curve.

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  • News Source: The Salt Lake City Tribune | 5 months ago
    The only benefit left may be a little more seniority in the House and that's a pretty tough sell when you offset that with the constitutional concerns." Opponents of the bill, which has been reintroduced for several sessions of Congress, argue that...
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 6 months ago
    You're Johnny on the spot with this one! Can you believe it? The guy was an 89 year old white supremest who called America a racial dumping group!
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 6 months ago
    America is a dumping ground. We are the most racially diverse country in the world while at the same time the most racist. And not just in one direction. Racism is alive and well in every creed, color and culture in America. It is not just whites who hate blacks. There are blacks who also hate whites. Hispanics who hate whites. Blacks who hate hispanics. The list goes on and on and does not stop with color. People who hate fat people, skinny people, blondes, redheads, everything. It is EVERYWHERE.
  • Posted By slydog slydog | 6 months ago
    I think the Rhetoric Slogan at the bottom if the pic is the mindset
    Gun Control is up against. Something along the lines that without a
    gun somehow the Government will enslave you. Some Republic ya got there!
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 6 months ago
    Joe Bageant, who wrote "Deer Hunting With Jesus," says what we really have is the American Hologram, which looks good on the surface but behind the scenes is much more of an oligarchy.

    A lot of the gun nuts have crummy lives and blame the government.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 6 months ago
    How do you get off saying a lot of the gun nuts have crummy lives and blame the government? That is the same type of prejudice as racism just pointed at a different group of people. Where did you get your facts on this one? Since I am pretty sure you are not a gun nut, and since birds of a feather flock together, I am guessing you do not hang out with any either. When this country does get the gun control that all the bleeding hearts have been begging for for so long you will regret it. When someone breaks in your house, who do you call? A man with a gun. He/she is a police officer. Disarming the good people only takes away their defense from the guy who doesn't care that guns are illegal and wants to kill, rape or rob you anyway.
  • Reply By slydog slydog | 6 months ago
    America may be the best experiment in Freedom & Democracy the
    last few Centuries have seen..BUT...you live in terror and fear of your neighbor from Sea to shining sea and must arm
    yourselves under the protection of an archiac law passed down from both Revolutionary and Hunting/gathering times. I would have thought a Republic that professed good government of..
    for & by the people..would not have to garrison themselves
    behind pistols & rifles and fear. Good hunting!
    You must have great trust in your Police force that each civilian must arm themselves to ward off criminals. What ever happened to "no taxation without representation"...perhaps a
    bit overworked because everybody is busy shooting each other because of the availibilty of weaponry?
  • Posted By UtahSavage UtahSavage | 6 months ago
    I tweeted this story the moment I heard it. What will it take to make us wake-up to the necessity of gun control legislation? How do we break the strangle-hold the NRA has on this country? And how the hell did this man get a SHOTGUN into the museum? That is not an easy gun to conceal.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 6 months ago
    The guy never tried to conceal the gun. He drove his car right up to the Museum, stopped in the middle lane and got out and walked right in. You don't need to conceal anything when you don't have that far to go. And it wasn't a shotgun. It was a rifle.
  • Posted By BorderExplorer BorderExplorer | 6 months ago
    CAMike, I LOVE your stories--not only because I'm on the same wavelength as you, but even more because you're such a wonderful writer. Michael Moore's Bowling for Columbine really explained the gun situation in the US to me.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 6 months ago
    Thanks so much.

    By the way, the guard has apparently died.
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 6 months ago
    This will not stop. This is what Napolitano warned us about. The right will make sure they keep them coming until they get their total chaos.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    I think you mean Nostradamus.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 6 months ago
    I'm convinced that the real wackos among them see the election of a black president as the Apocalypse.
  • Posted By jmsjoin jmsjoin | 6 months ago
    Yes, they say he is the antichrist. this they say to whip up the perverted Christian like the idiot that just killed tiller. Tiller was listening to Oreilley say Tiller the baby killer, the mass murderer. I will write about it all again the day after tomorrow but I'm telling you, the right is doing this on purpose. Like Bush and his war they will have their anarchy if they have to instigate it themselves and they are.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 6 months ago
    Seriously? Anarchy? Do you know what that means. All the word anarchy means is lack of government. It has absolutely nothing to do with war or chaos. And Tiller was a bay killer and a mass murderer. Not that it was ok for that guy to kill him because I do not agree with that either. But murder is murder and life begins at conception not birth.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 6 months ago
    I just added a video of Pastor Wiley Drake, who is praying for Obama's death. Some nut is going to take a shot at him sooner or later.
  • Posted By proletariatx proletariatx | 6 months ago
    "...the bad people in our country, the ones who ignore laws, have the easiest time getting guns here than they would in any other nation."

    Gun laws can't and won't change anything.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 6 months ago
    So what do we do?
  • Posted By proletariatx proletariatx | 6 months ago
    Anti-gun laws are not the solution. This problem is far too complex to simply try to attempt to squash with anti-gun legislation. This incident points to, yet again (i.e. school shootings), a break-down in the belief in the "greater good" that people like this posses. It is a mental disconnect from the vision of a friendly, safe utopia that people that hold your anti-gun belief seem to believe in. The fact of the matter is that there are some people that just don't care about the consequences of their actions and I feel that it is impossible to prevent incidents such as this from happening again. Since guns were introduced into human society there have been individuals who have and will continue to use them to kill other people. It is a consequence of the tool. Even if guns were somehow eradicated from society the antisocial individuals would simply resort to other means to achieve the same goals.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 6 months ago
    So why doesn't this happen in other countries?
  • Reply By proletariatx proletariatx | 5 months ago
    Oh but this does happen in other countries, Socrates. It's typically not gun violence though, it's far worse with greater casualties. I remember a certain doomsday cult in Japan that gassed innocent people on the subway, a certain terrorist organization that was bombing subways in the UK, and a kid that shot up his high school in Germany, just to name a few from the past few years. If this old man had a bomb strapped to him things would have been a lot worse. Need a few domestic examples as well? Ted Kazinski, Tim Mcveigh, and 9/11. I feel very lucky that suicide bombing hasn't caught on over here yet but that will change if the guns go away. Maybe not suicide bombings at first, but homemade bombs could very easily become the weapon of choice. If guns go away where does it stop? People still stab others to death but knives aren't illegal. Also, once one freedom has been cut from the Bill of Rights how long until another one is? It goes far beyond guns. I'm not an NRA fanatic hiding behind the Constitution and I don't even own a gun. I'm a regular citizen. As I stated previously, the antisocial individuals would simply resort to other means to achieve the same goals. They have before where guns weren't available, or tactically feasible, and they will again.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    Especially since anyone with acces to the internet can download a recipe for a bomb that will take out an entire building with supplies you can buy at Wal Mart without even showing your ID. What's next? Ban the internet and Wal Mart after everyone is done with guns? You can't stop it and you never will be able to. It is a part of life. A tragic part, yes, but still a part of life that will never end until the human race is extinct. Punish those that commit crimes harshly and try to prevent them through intelligence and investigating if you can. That is all you can do. Trying to prevent the means people use to create human suffering will only force them to find other means. Possibly more deadly ones.
  • Posted By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 6 months ago
    If guns cause crime then I can blame forest fires on matches, and mispellings on my keyboard or pencil. Guns are not the problem, people are. And yes, if the guard at the Holocaust museum was not armed how many innocent people would have died. Noone knows but I can guarantee you it would have been more than one. You ask why our murder rate and amount of incarcerations are the highest in the world? It has absolutely nothing to do with guns. It is because America has become a bunch of bleeding heart, crybabies. In other countries around the world do you know what happens if you kill someone? They kill YOU. Problem solved. I can assure you if the punishments were as harsh here as they are around the world, our crime rate would be just as low. But the same people who complain about guns now would then complain about capital punishment and too harsh treatment. Cry me a river. If they would quit giving murderers, child molesters, rapists and drug dealers the right to breathe, as they do in other countries, the problem would solve itself. But then you would say we would not be as civilized a nation to which I would ask you, just how civilized are we with the highest crime rates and levels of incarceration in the entire world?
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    No, they don't execute you if you kill other people. No other democracy or republic in the world still has the death penalty.

    It just isn't true.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    There are many places that still have the death penalty. In fact, there are more countries in the world that a) have the death penalty, or b)will never let you out of a cell again, if you kill someone. We allow murderers to serve short term sentences by calling their crime something else like manslaughter and allowing them to do one year for theior crime. The courst give child molesters probation and set them loose on the streets to do it again. So while you obviously do not agree with the death penalty, at least you can agree that these people should never see the light of a free day again.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    Here is the problem with Life without Parole. Who is going to pay for it? I've got an idea. Why don't we let all the people against capital punishment fund it. Because I do not believe that me or my family deserves to be financially responsible for the crimes of a preson I've never met. Or maybe the families and friends of those convicted should fund it. Either way, leave me out of it.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    I have no problem with life without parole. I am not a bleeding heart. I even have no problem with chemical castration for child molesters.
  • Posted By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 6 months ago
    And one other thing when it comes to Joe Sixpack. One Joe Sixpack may not be able to hold off the government alone. But how about 200,000 of them or more? You are seeing things backwards. Our military is made up of many so called Joe Sixpacks. None of them will fight when and if it ever gets to that point. And just so you know, it is because of the Joe Sixpacks of so many generations ago that you are not under British Rule today. Because when they were outnembered they had the courage to stand up and fight instead of lay down and die. And they won. Why? Because they held the belief that it is better to die on your feet than live on your knees. One more thing we could use more of in this country. So the next time you feel like badmouthing Mr. Joe Sixpack, why don't you thank him first. Thank him that you even had the right to write this column without fear of being persecuted. The right to criticize your government without being hung or shot.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    I call bullshit on that. Nobody is talking about disarming the military, and nobody is against people having guns in their homes to protect their families. But until you gun people can show us how to stop wackos from shooting up museums, day care centers and offices, we've got a problem.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    I am not talking about disarming the military. That would be suicide and I'm pretty sure everyone knows it. What I am talking about is when the government tried disarming the public, and they will one day, Joe SixPack will stand up and fight. The military will not be able to do much to stop a revolt like that because of the number of Joe Sixpacks who are a)civilians and will stand together against the military that is left, and b)already in the military but will not fight against there brothers and sisters and fathers and mothers who are fighting for something they too believe in. And you will NEVER be able to stop idiots from shooting up public places. NEVER. There are crazy people out there who have crazy beliefs and there always will be. Even if you destroyed every single gun in existence, they would just find another tool to go crazy and kill people in a public place. Murder is the oldest crime in human existance. If you believe in the bible it was the first crime ever comitted outside of disobeying God. It will NEVER go away. The best thing to do is to punish those who commit murder accordingly so that they cannot do it again, while in the process possibly deterring the next guy from doing it because he say what happened to the other guy. When you were a kid did you ever think twice about doing something because you saw your brother or sister get in trouble for it? Same principle.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    Sorry, but taking away guns would help with these nuts. If somebody goes into a McDonald's with a semiautomatic weapon, he can kill a lot of people fast.

    If he goes in with a machete, first of all he's got to get up close and second he's going to be easier to run away from.
  • Posted By slydog slydog | 6 months ago
    For the Innocents and the ongoing slaughter

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-jc-0aqVfrE
  • Reply By proletariatx proletariatx | 5 months ago
    I'm sorry, but that song is about a cop killing an UNARMED immigrant who didn't speak English who was reaching for his wallet in NYC. I remember that incident.
  • Posted By Sherrill_Fulghum Sherrill_Fulghum | 5 months ago
    The past couple of generations have not been taught the proper respect - for themselves or anyone else - thus they have no remorse or understanding about what the consequences of their actions are. Until the young are taught some proper manners and home training this will continue to be an escalating problem.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    The guy was 88 years old.
  • Posted By puposha puposha | 5 months ago
    "don't care if someone wants a gun to protect their home and family, but the idea of people out walking on the street fully armed is repugnant to me." I think this is the crux of the problem. How do you allow the former while preventing the latter? The problem is that current gun legislation is not protecting us from the wackjobs but infringing upon the rights of the law abiding citizens who just want a gun to protect their homes. The unfortunate bottom line is that those who want a gun for unlawful purposes will still get one, regardless of the legislation or legality of guns.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    When you consider all the drug laws in the United States, you are still left with the unfortunate fact that any kid, in any schoolyard in the country, can basically buy almost any drug they wish; why would it not be the height of naivety to believe that making more laws pertaining to guns will in any way retard their possession and use by anyone who wants one?

    The ease with which people can obtain guns in the US is not a product of our laws; it's more a product of our society. We, as a people, have been brought up to believe that the police are our protectors; that we don't need weapons, because they will keep us safe. With the proliferation of gangs, and groups of racist thugs, the criminals have discovered one important bit of information: they can attack us with relative impunity, because there aren't enough police officers to prevent it.

    The average US citizen is ill prepared to defend either themselves, or their families and doing so can lead to lawsuits and incarceration. If a criminal enters your house, or accosts you on the street, you, the victim, are held to a greater level of accountability than the monster who attacked you. He can steal, rape, or kill, and run away. If you use a weapon and injure or kill him, you are the one who will be subjected to all of the inequalities of our legal system, while he will probably be plea bargained, or released on bail, and never show up in court.

    I live in Colorado, am employed as a telecom engineer, and my name isn't Bubba. In this state, it's the criminals who need to be aware. We have concealed carry permits legally available to our citizens, and since their implementation, violent crime in this state has taken a sharp drop. We also have a "Make My Day" law, that says if a person comes into my home, and I believe them to be a threat the welfare of myself, or my family, I am allowed to use deadly force. These are the gun laws which work.

  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    Thank you. I live in Texas and our crime also saw a sharp drop since the implementation of a concealed carry law. In fact, some states have permissive open carry laws which allow any citizen not prohibited by law (due to felony or other) to openle carry a firearm in plain sight WITHOUT A PERMIT. These states include Alaska, Arizona, New Mexico, Idaho, Montana, Wyoming, South Dakota, Kentucky, West Virginia and Virginia and Vermont. Other states have a Licensed open carry law which allows the same as long as you have a permit. These states include Hawaii, Utah, North Dakota, Minnesota, Iowa, Indiana, Tennessee, Maryland, New Jersey, Georgia, Connecticut and Rhode Island. The states with some of the toughest gun control laws, California, Texas, New York, Michigan, Illinois, Louisiana, have the highest crime rates. Figure that one out. Why do you think that is? Because people who want to kill you don't care that it is against the law.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    There's a lot more to it than that. Much of it has to do with crowding. I forget which scientist did this, but if you have two rats in a cage, there will be a certain amount of violence. When you increase the number, the violence increases not numerically, but exponentially.

    Many of the states you mention with low crime hardly have any people.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    You should really read up before replying. New Jersey, a state with an open carry law which allows people to openly carry a firearm in plain sight, is the densest state in the U.S. which means that there are more people per square mile than in any other state. Rhode island is the second densest state. Again, they have an open carry law. Connecticut and Maryland are numbers 4 and 5 for the densest states and also have open carry laws. Hawaii and Virginia are numbers 13 and 14 and have open carry. Indiana, Georgia, Tennessee are 17, 18 and 19 and have open carry. Kentucky is number 22 and has open carry. That means that out of the top 50% for the densest states in the U.S., 40% of those have open carry laws. And that crowding theory the scientist worked up had not only to do with the number of rats in a cage but how big the cage was as well. Ithas more to do with population density that population. California may have more people but it also has more room. NY only ranked #7 in the densest states. CA was 11 and Texas was 26.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    I've got no problem with guns in the home, except that they're many times more likely to be used in anger or by mistake against another family member. Even against a criminal, if he's got a gun, most of the times the homeowner loses out.

    I have an aluminum baseball bat, which will work against anything but a gun (and maybe a bullwhip).
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    True that a lot of times the homeowner does lose out when the intruder is armed with a gun. It usually is because either the homeowner was taken by surprise and did not have time to get to his gun, or the homeowner was not trained properly on how to use the gun in the first place. But with no gun at all there would be absolutely no chance. And your bat is useless against pretty much anything. They are too heavy and require too much energy to swing which leaves you completely open to attack if you miss. If you don't believe in guns or don't want one, get a taser. You can even get the ones that the police carry so you don't have to walk right up on the guy. Although the ones the police carry require you to pass a background check, then when you pass they will give you a code to punch into the keypad on the taser. The taser will not operate without that code.
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    Heya CaliforniaMike;

    Do you have any stats to back up your statements? I think it's important to separate the apples from the oranges.
    a) if you have guns, learn how to use them safely.
    b) more importantly learn how to store them safely, but for ready access; there are many quick access gun safes on the market.

    I'm not sure there are any studies to verify that in the case of domestic violence, if a gun wasn't available, the event wouldn't have happened with something else that was available, say... a baseball bat.

    A baseball bat is a great choice; unfortunately, in many states, using even that for protection will get you lockups and litigation.

    I think gun education is a better and more workable alternative to more gun laws...
  • Reply By slydog slydog | 5 months ago
    You fill find a wealth of statistics here!

    http://www.gun-control-network.org/GF01.htm
  • Posted By mombakkie mombakkie | 5 months ago
    lots of opposing comments here, and valid points by both sides, all l can say is, thank God l live in a sleepy Scottish village, l'm 64 and the only guns lv'e ever seen are the ones the cops have at the airport and they look scary enough. l know most of my neighbours and when l go out never bother to lock my door, thats how safe l feel! when l read about what happens in other countries which have a combination of hate,guns and a population willing to act out their fantasies either in criminality or revenge l really feel sorry for them as l think the one feeds off the other.
  • Posted By Sherrill_Fulghum Sherrill_Fulghum | 5 months ago
    My brother was 12 years old when he got his first shotgun - he loves to hunt. The guns were never loaded in the house and the ammo was kept in separate spot. We had been having trouble with some neighbours snooping around our back porch. Brother left an empty shotgun by the back door, guy comes on porch snooping around Dad picked up the gun and cocked it. Guy ran. No more trouble. But that wouldn't work today like it did 30 years ago.

    It's the he's got one so I have to have two mentality. Trouble none of them know the proper use for the them.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    As an aside, the whackos will never go away, and regardless of the laws in effect, they will always be able to get guns, or something else(pipe bombs can be quickly assembled out of household items available at grocery stores, and are more deadly than guns. This is a societal problem, not a gun problem. When we have less angst, we will have less violence. Until that time, it's incumbent upon the citizen to take the necessary steps to maintain their personal security, mainly because nobody else will do it for us.
  • Posted By slydog slydog | 5 months ago
    "Wackos" as you call them don't need guns to terrorize society.
    Clifford Olson in Canada is a good case to look at. Also the recent
    Robert Picton "Pig Farm" murderer of an unknown number of prostitutes.
    None of these people needed guns for their crimes. Neither did the
    zealots on 9/11...box cutters sufficed. Then you have your own Home
    Grown Timothy McViegh..no guns there!

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clifford_Olson

    Now look at the statistics for kids shooting each other with weapons
    laying around American homes...drive by shootings in LA by Gangbangers,
    Charles Watson in the Texas tower, the San Ysidro MacDonalds Massacre,
    Squeaky fromm, Hinkley, John Lennon's death by handgun and of course
    Columbine and Virinia Tech!...NOW..tell me there is not a problem
    with readily available guns for all under some misconstued banner
    of Freedom. The Wackos are always with us; with or without guns.
    Why make it easier for them to practice mayhem?

  • Reply By proletariatx proletariatx | 5 months ago
    The Columbine shootings happened because the shooters found a way around the existing gun laws the same way I found my way around existing liquor laws when I was in high school; they had someone else buy them. If it could have been prevented it would have. I grew up in Littleton. I saw it happen on TV. I have friends that were there that day and we're sick of hearing about it. See? The wackos found a way to execute their plan despite the law.
  • Posted By Sherrill_Fulghum Sherrill_Fulghum | 5 months ago
    The US government has been so fixated on the "terrorists" they claim are hiding in the bushes elsewhere that they have forgotten about what is going on in their own backyard.

    What's worse is the toy guns these days look like the real thing. What does that say about our society?
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    The government does that in many areas and so does our society in America. Every time you turn on the tv you see a commercial begging you to help feed and clothe children in other countries, or trying to bring democracy to other countries. While I do feel sorry for the starving children all over the world and people who fear the tyranny in their country, why don't we feed our children and worry about fixing our society first before we try and play all high and mighty world government while the rest of the world laughs at us.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    "Now look at the statistics for kids shooting each other with weapons
    laying around American homes...drive by shootings in LA by Gangbangers,
    Charles Watson in the Texas tower, the San Ysidro MacDonalds Massacre,
    Squeaky fromm, Hinkley, John Lennon's death by handgun and of course
    Columbine and Virinia Tech!...NOW..tell me there is not a problem
    with readily available guns for all under some misconstued banner
    of Freedom. The Wackos are always with us; with or without guns.
    Why make it easier for them to practice mayhem?"

    How many whackos follow gun laws? The basic answer is, "none". How many whackos use any form of standard procedure to purchase guns? Same answer. Why? Because if you purchase a gun legally, in most states your name is associated with it. Outlaws don't buy legal guns, so gun laws don't stop them.

    I work with people who had kids in Columbine; we waited with them throgh the ordeal until we found out that, by the grace of God, they were some of the lucky ones; I'm not a gun nut. I believe citizens of the US should have the right to be proactive in protecting themselves and their families.

    As long as there are whackos, there will be violence; if there are no guns, then there will be pipe bombs, or other similar devices. Walking down two isles at most grocery stores, I can find what I need to build any number of very lethal items, from explosives, to incendiaries, to poison gas... it's not the guns; it's the society we live in.
  • Posted By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    OK, riddle me this:

    The NRA says we need to enforce existing laws, and one of those is that someone convicted of a felony can't own a gun. Well, Hitler von Brunn spent five years in prison but still got guns.

    Why is the NRA against background checks and licensing?

    Seems to me those would solve a lot of the problems without taking away any law-abiding citizens's guns.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    You have the law all wrong. The law does not state that a convicted felon cannot own a gun or vote as so many people think. What the law does state is that a convicted felon loses his right to bear arms and his right to vote for seven years after the disposition date of his sentence which is his last day of probation, parole or prison. I know this because I am a convicted felon from many many years back. I own a gun and I vote in every election. There are more felons around you than you think. Mr. Von Brunn was convicted of a felony and served five years in the eighties. Not saying he had any business with a gun given his association to all the white power radical groups, but his right to own a gun was most likely very intact. And you do have to have a background check to buy a gun as long as you buy it from a licensed dealer. But what slips through the cracks are individuals who sell them to other individuals.
  • Posted By proletariatx proletariatx | 5 months ago
    I believe that it is not only reasonable, but extremely likely that he either obtained the rifle before going to jail, or he got it through other white supremacists during his stay in Hayden, Idaho, once again undermining gun laws and leaving the notion of gun control flat on its back because criminals simply don't obey the law. Why is that so hard to understand?
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    So why not do background checks to at least slow the gun traffic?
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    Try to buy a gun. They have background checks that are federally enforced. Licensing is not required in all states but it is in most.
  • Reply By lwhaley1979 lwhaley1979 | 5 months ago
    Yes, at gun shows a background check is still required by law by all vendors. Those who sell guns at guns shows without doing a background check are operating outside the law and therefore would operate outside the law anyway. ANY licensed vendor selling a firearm is required by law to perform a background check. It came along with the Brady Bill. So anyone selling without performing said background check is operating illegally and is one of the causes of guns in the hands of the wrong people. The problem is that people who operate outside the law do not care that it is illegal.
  • Reply By CaliforniaMike CaliforniaMike | 5 months ago
    Not at gun shows.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    CaliforniaMike said:
    "Sorry, but taking away guns would help with these nuts. If somebody goes into a McDonald's with a semiautomatic weapon, he can kill a lot of people fast.

    If he goes in with a machete, first of all he's got to get up close and second he's going to be easier to run away from."

    I could do significantly more damage much more quickly with a pipe bomb assembled from my local Safeway with parts I bought over the counter... probably a 100% kill, especially if I used 2; any moderately intelligent person could do the same thing if they wanted to.

    Guns are irrelevant; until our society does something to reduce levels of angst, other people are going to pay the price.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    CaliforniaMike asked:
    "So why not do background checks to at least slow the gun traffic?"

    I think a lot of it is that there is a far more active and lucrative black marked in guns than in guns purchased from a licensed gun dealer. I think the background checks for concealed carry licenses are legitimate. I think a background check on anyone who purchases a gun, is not, because if it's purchased at a licensed dealer there's already a record, and as been alluded to earlier, people who are planning to commit a crime rarely want to be on record for anything.

    Also, I haven't seen anything in the Constitution that says my right to bear arms is conditional.
  • Posted By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    Bottom line: criminals don't abide by laws, so laws do nothing to effectively limit crime.
  • Reply By proletariatx proletariatx | 5 months ago
    Thank you. Can we call this one dead yet?
  • Posted By Sherrill_Fulghum Sherrill_Fulghum | 5 months ago
    If the law says that criminals lose the right to vote for seven years after disposition, then why are they given absentee ballots in jail?
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    erm... ACORN?
  • Posted By Sherrill_Fulghum Sherrill_Fulghum | 5 months ago
    As long as you got the money, you can buy whatever you want at a gun show.
  • Reply By firesisle firesisle | 5 months ago
    Or anywhere else in the country, for that matter...
  • Posted By proletariatx proletariatx | 5 months ago
    Check this out:http://www.marinij.com/ci_12596740?source=rss

    Now we're going to have to ban hammers too!
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