Clash of the presidents: Carter vs. Obama
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Clash of the presidents: Carter vs. Obama

New York City : NY : USA | Jun 25, 2012 at 6:58 PM PDT
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Does God Approve of US Drone Attacks?

On June 24, former President Jimmy Carter penned an op-ed piece in The New York Times which lambasted the Obama administration's human rights record. Without naming the president directly, it is clear that Carter is upset with Obama.

Under Obama, Carter argues, America has completely abandoned its role as a leader, if not the leader of human rights enforcement throughout the world. On the contrary, the U.S. may now be ranked high among the most serious violators of human rights, both abroad and at home.

Carter's main concerns are with America's actions overseas, and are, broadly, twofold:

  • The escalation of unmanned drone attacks in the Middle East and the Horn of Africa; and
  • Obama's continuing failure to close Guantanamo Bay Detention Camp.

Drones. Carter reveals that pursuant to American military (and thus administration) policy, any man killed in a drone attack anywhere overseas is declared an “enemy terrorist” after the fact. All women and children killed in such attacks are, as always, the unfortunate but inevitable result of “collateral damage.” President Hamid Karzai of Afghanistan has demanded that the drone attacks cease inside his country. The Obama administration has ignored him. Likewise, drone attacks have been stepped up in non-combat zones in Pakistan, Yemen and Somalia, killing untold hundreds, perhaps thousands, of innocent people.

Guantanamo Bay. Obama has reneged on any number of solemnly, earnestly made promises during his 2008 campaign. But the failure to follow through on his pledge to close the Cuban prison camp known as “Gitmo” has rankled many of his staunchest supporters to the point of not just disillusionment but disgust as well.

As one of the president's very high-profile supporters, Carter's critique of Obama's Gitmo policy is particularly stinging. Carter points out that only half of the 169 remaining prisoners there have any hope of ever being released. He says that some of these men have been tortured in extremis via waterboarding more than 100 times, subjected to snarling dogs, power tools, and “threats of sexual assault against their mothers.” Further, it is almost a foregone conclusion that those who are brought to trial before “military tribunals,” where normal rules of evidence and procedure do not apply, will be given decades-long or life sentences to be served right there in Guantanamo Bay Detention Center.

Carter's domestic issues. Carter also objects to Obama's support for legislation allowing for the assassination of American citizens and/or their indeterminate "detention" should he, and he alone, determine that they represent a “threat” to “national security.”

The Foreign Intelligence Surveillance Act of 1978, under Obama, has been hollowed out and now allows for virtually unlimited snooping by the government on American citizens' electronic communications devices without judicial warrant.

Finally, the president's tacit embrace of state laws which allow arrest, detention and prosecution of citizens because of their appearance, national background, or “suspicious” behavior is also decried by Carter.

November 2012. Carter's clash with Obama is not a good omen for the president's re-election prospects. There is no doubt whatsoever that Carter is a man of principle and would not and does not levy these charges against Obama lightly. He, Carter, is certainly aware that his words may have a detrimental effect on the president's ultimate vote totals, and, indeed, could contribute to his loss in November. Thus, he is also surely aware that his criticism may provide more fodder for the right-wing media's propaganda machine.

So, why did he do it? Carter called Obama on the carpet because wrong is just wrong. And the truth must be told no matter whom it hurts, or when it hurts, or how bad it hurts. Those who still support the president, must allow the scales covering their eyes to fall away and face the obvious truth. The president has been acting as any ordinary, power-hungry warmonger would act. George W. Bush comes readily to mind. In fact, most of the president's bad behavior here is merely an enhancement of Bush's original so-called "doctrines."

There is little time left for Obama to redeem himself, though. As a gesture of good faith, however, I suggest that, at the very least, Obama begin by returning his Nobel Peace Prize.

Source:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/06/25/opinion/americas-shameful-human-rights-record.html

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Carter v. Obama
President Jimmy Carter (AFP photo)
Herbert Dyer, Jr. is based in Chicago, Illinois, United States of America, and is an Anchor for Allvoices.
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Posted By herbinchi Herbert Dyer, Jr. | 11 months ago
This would be true if I believed anything the Republicans say about any Democrat, let alone Jimmy Carter. What they've done to his reputation, even while in office, was and is almost criminal. Those of us who were there, or maybe those who weren't but can read history objectively (sans the right/left, liberal/conservative dogma), know that had this country followed Carter's admonitions, especially about "energy" and "environment," unemployment, budget deficits, poverty, etc., etc. would be distant, fading memories.

But if all you do is listen to the right wing's propaganda, you would never know these things. You would never question why the rest of world is surging economically (except Europe since the right wing took over there). Everywhere and every-when they come to power, poverty ensues for the masses while the rich few get even richer, obscenely richer. That's what we've had with each and every Republican president since Ike...and that's what will get if Romney wins.

Besides, this piece is not about Carter....but Obama. Because you don't like or respect Carter does not diminish his well made points about Obama.
Reply By dbmyers dbmyers | 11 months ago
Whereas I can agree with some of Carter's criticisms, does he really feel (1.) That the republicans would do a better job on these issues? and (2.) That in the middle of a turning point election like this, this is the time to make these criticisms? Why not try to help re-elect Obama who is clearly better on all of these issues than Romeney or the Republicans could ever be, and then call out Obama on issues he disagrees with after seeing if Obama's position has changed or not, after re-election. I am an admirer of Jimmy Carter, but in the middle of this seminal election, is not a time to be holier than thou and non-practical about the consequences of this critical election. Come on Jimmy - get some perspective!
Reply By katherineLikely katherineLikely | 11 months ago
He made no well made points about Obama. I would sooner listen to my 13 year old grandson on politics then a misfit peanut farmer who had no guts during his Presidency.

His opinion is not important to me and for him to condemn another President on anything is total bull.

He needs to attend to his farm and let the real people do the work of being President and running the country.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
katherineLikely Libya was no threat to the USA. Obama initiated an attack and the result is a radical Islamic regime that is much worse. Libya under the Obama supported government is a country on the brink of civil war. Darker skinned Africans are placed in cages. Torture is widespread. Rapes are exploding in numbers. Women's human rights are being trampled.

Idiots continue foreign policy failures and destabilize nations for no gain. By doing so, more enemies are created leading to a cycle of violence and more wars.

Ironically you too support the exact policies that Bush 2 championed. Democrat "humanitarian intervention" is just another excuse to advance the Neo-Conservative agenda. As Billy Kristal said: Obama has gottenm "in touch with his inner Neo-Conservative". Obviously you have too.

The results of US interventions in the Middle East have empowered the enemies of the US. This has played into the hands of radical Islamic groups such as al Qaeda.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
I see. So Obama can do no wrong and all the people that US foreign policy killed were guilty of what?

Obama is another warmonger in chief. Just like his predecessors.

Do-not-question-the-great-leader. Obey.

One can only hope that your 13 year grandson doesn't follow in your jaded footsteps.
Reply By dbmyers dbmyers | 11 months ago
You really feel that Romney and the tea-party led Republicans would be better on these issues? Really? Let's get this turning point election over then deal with our differences on these issues. Letting the Republicans win in order to be polictally "pure" would actually make all of those issues even worse under a tea-party controled Republican party.
Reply By katherineLikely katherineLikely | 11 months ago
Well at least Springton I am not an idiot. Obama can do wrong and has. But I have no respect for a man who did nothing in his own Presidency and he has no right to criticise any President and I do not care what their political party is.

He gave up his right when he brought American to her knees, he gave up the right when he allowed Americans to be trampled on in the name of humanitarian rights.

There are no huminatarian rights in war. Are you going to stand toe to toe with your foe and grant him the right to kill you because you can not bring yourself to harm him for huminataian rights? If so then you aren't just an idiot - you are a complete one!

He is wishy washy and that is a matter of record.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
Herbert Dyer: "Besides, this piece is not about Carter....but Obama. Because you don't like or respect Carter does not diminish his well made points about Obama."

Exactly Herbert.

Then IMO you go wrong: "Everywhere and every-when they come to power, poverty ensues for the masses while the rich few get even richer, obscenely richer. That's what we've had with each and every Republican president since Ike...and that's what will get if Romney wins."

It's not about the GOP or the Democrat's. Both party's represent the same interests. 95% of their funding comes form the same sources. This is a political class and a ruling elite. They socialize with each other, marry each other, send their kids to the same schools. MSNBC talk shows have "progressive" guests and neo-conservative opposing opinion. FOX has neo-conservative guests and "progressive" opposing opinions. This is a fraud. Designed to con the population into the belief that there are only two ideologies. Those "sides" are, in fact, working hand in glove to advance the same exact agenda.

Republicans? Sure, but note that under Obama, the top .1% have their greatest increase in the percentage of national wealth in American history. The American middle class has hit a 20 year low and is still sliding. And yes. That started under BW Bush (actually earlier), but Clinton (Rubin, Summers, Greenspan) set it up.
Reply By rgray222 rgray222 | 11 months ago
If you were actually there when Carter was in office than you remember the exorbitant interest rates banks were charging for loans, 18 -22%. You must remember the failed hostage attempt, do you remember the outrageous lines at the gas stations. Do you remember him selling the Presidential boat his first year in office, as if this was going to fix our money problems. Carter implemented or contributed to all the horrible things that happened during his watch. No party or ideology made Carter look bad, I am sorry but he did that entirely on his own! Please don't try to rewrite history or the truth, it is what is it is, plain and simple!
Reply By dbmyers dbmyers | 11 months ago
You are wrong when you state "no party or ideology made Carter look bad". Ronald Reagan and his political operatives, as the nominee of the Republican party, committed treason when they conspired with the Iranian hostage takers to not make the deal that Carter was urging on Iran. Reagan promised the Iranian hostage takers a better deal if the Iranians did not release the hostages until after the election, thus purposely "making Carter look bad" and guaranteeing a Republican win and resulting in the Iran-Contra treasous policy of exchanging the hostages for weapons and getting cash in the deal to fund their (Reagan's) illegal black ops attacks on the democratically elected Sandanista government in Nicaragua. One constitutional definition of treason is "conspiring with a foreign government against the foreign policy of your own government". Reagan should have been impeached and charged with treason.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
Yes rgray. The Federal Reserve under Paul Volker instituted policies that quenched the raging inflation. I'm guessing that you'd say that the Fed was a major cause of the the problem. And that is correct. Along with irresponsible government spending, and Nixon's interventions in the market. Mistake was piled on mistake. But give some credit where due. After making the mistake of putting Miller in charge of the Fed, it was Carter who put Volker into the chair in Aug 1979. Of course, Volker just reversed the damage that the policies of Miller and Burns pursued.

Many of Reagan's best people left in his first term. That is because he failed to live up to his verbiage. Still, the 1980's was a better time for the American people. Unemployment was low and good jobs abounded. The cold war was winding down. There was optimism. Unlike now.
Reply By rgray222 rgray222 | 11 months ago
Very well said!
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
Yes, I remember all of that. But Carter got blamed for a lot that was the result of previous policy. Johnson's gun's and butter, Nixon's expansion of the SE Asian war. Nixon's disastrous interventions into the economy with price controls and quotas. The Federal Reserves expansion of the money supply.

The above resulted in high inflation and high unemployment. Carter didn't fix it, but he wasn't the major culprit either.
Reply By katherineLikely katherineLikely | 11 months ago
Carter was a gutless President and now he finds his guts. I think he is years late.
Reply By rgray222 rgray222 | 11 months ago
If you remember when Reagan took office he did inherit a mess. That continued for about 14 months, people bitterly complained about him, then some of his policies started to take effect and the economy turned for the better. Gas lines ended, interest rates fell, the hostages came home etc etc. He spoke of American greatness, he truly believed in the country and its people. His optimism spilled over to all of us. That said he certainly made mistakes, he increased the debt and deficit, did not get his hands around immigration and he left other promises on the table but the point is, he made changes that improved things. He never really blamed Carter like our current president is blaming his predecessor. Reagan spoke of ideas and implement them he did not speak of people and assess blame. It has been my observation that when you hear leaders continually blaming others for the countries current ills it really means they have not ideas on how to fix things! Just and observation
Posted By jinkinpark jinkinpark | 11 months ago
This is a very informative report. Rated up and keep it up.
Posted By Keevin Keevin | 11 months ago
Try to imagine for a moment what it would be like if the republinos take the presidency, 60 seat majority in the senate and a majority in the house. No more social security, no more medicare, vouchers for about $100 a month to cover all your health needs including prescriptions, no more teachers, police, or firefighters, in the public sector. Plenty in the private sector if you can afford to pay them. No more minimum wage, if you want a job you will work for what they tell you you will work for. My very first job while I was in high school, I started at $.90 an hour (about 1960), that will be the new minimum wage of today. The military will be on steroids bombing Iran, Syria, Iraq, and Afghanistan, with boots on the ground in all four countries. The more you make the more you keep and the lower your federal income tax rate if they keep the IRS. They may eliminate the IRS and you must pay a federal sales tax of roughly 15% on everything you buy including food. No more welfare checks, no more unemployment checks, and no more food stamps. The only abortions performed will be in one of two places: In a private hospital with the best doctors and medical staff and equipment available for the rich with money as no object or in the back ally with a coat hanger performed by a stranger for free. This is just the tip of the iceberg, it will get worse as time goes on. The best jobs for the 99% will be limo driver, butler, maid, gardener, pool keeper, horse groomer, and auto mechanic.
Reply By rgray222 rgray222 | 11 months ago
I always enjoy these discussions until someone comes in and says no more teachers, firefighters, police, medicare, medicaid or that old people will eat dog food under the republicans. These arguments make you look small minded, uniformed and just plain silly (a polite word for stupid). An equally stupid argument could be made against the democrats but that would be a waste of time and effort.
People in both parties want, clean air, clean water, a clean environment, renewable energy, great teachers, sufficient law and fire enforcement, we just disagree on how to go about it. Believe it or not most conservatives even want some type of health care safety net, not a 2700 page bill passed on Christmas eve (rammed down congresses throat) that was very poorly written that nobody read. Ask any democratic congressman what they really think of the health care bill and you will get an earful if they are honest.
So the bottom line is the sooner we all realize that we are actually on the same page the sooner we can get something done but the longer people make the argument, like your making, it only serves to widen the divide and slow the process down. It is not the politicians we need to worry about having differences it simply all of us. Think through your words before you put them out there and you will find that most of us (regardless of party affiliation) can be civil and can accomplish much good for the country!
Reply By dbmyers dbmyers | 11 months ago
You are deluded or worse. Maybe some republicans believe this, but the extreme right fundamentalists and corporate oligarchy powers that be - the ones that are spending unlimited monies on trying to buy this election have no such commitments to "clean air, clean water, a clean environment,renewable energy, great teachers, or sufficient law and fire enforcement." The want nothing more than unrestricted power to make the rich richer no matter what the costs to everyone else or to our environment or our planet. Your are either severely deluded about this or are a purposeful spreader of disinformation and one of those commited to the corporate oligarchy's nefarious plans to rule and ruin the world - all in the name of unrestricted "profits".
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
Gee Keevin. "no more teachers, police, or firefighters"?.... Really? They are local and state funded.

"I started at $.90 an hour (about 1960)". Paid in currency undebased by Fed money printing which has been used to pay for all the government spending on failed programs and Ponzi like schemes. The $.90/hour paid for 15 cent gasoline, electricity that was 6% of what is costs now, $20 cent bread, houses that cost $11,000 (same exact houses built in the early 60's in my area now run $240,000.)

Today's minimum wage is $7.25. About 8 X what you were paid. BUT basic costs have gone up about 15 X.

In addition, the average productivity per worker has almost tripled. So, where has all the money gone?

Domestic federal government spending as a percent of the GDP has increased by over 250%. Much of this has been "paid" for by borrowing. Wall Street benefits in a number of ways by this. Every government debt instrument is sold by Wall Street dealers. They get a cut. Targeted inflation also benefits the financial sector. Inflation increases asset and commodity prices. Leverage accelerates the wealth effect. And the financial sector is all about leverage.

Much of the government spending goes to favored corporations and regulation is designed to suppress their competition keeping margins at record levels. The government also fixes prices for Ag. Big Pharma and the Military Industrial sectors.

Banks also get to loan out a multiple of they have as deposits. The big banks also get interest free money from Fed which they "redeposit" as "reserves" right back to the Fed as an interest bearing account. The Fed also purchases securities from Wall Street after telegraphing their intention to do so under Quantitative Easing.

As a result of all this manipulation, the financial sector has grown from about 4.5% of the economy in the early 1960's to being well over 20%. The top .1% of the wealthiest Americans is dominated by this sector. That's BECAUSE of government. In other words, they got a huge piece of the economic pie. The rest of us got higher prices, a increasingly corrupt government, and we DIDN'T get the benefits of increased productivity.

If you take your $.90/ hour and were still paid in silver at the average price of the last 5 years, it would buy about $16 in today's currency. Would you rather be paid in that as a minimum wage? Or the $7.25 that is minimum wage now?

BTW, that increase in buying power with your 1960 (undebased) silver backed money? Correlates pretty closely with worker productivity.

The people that you probably think are representing your interests are the same bunch that are using government to enrich themselves at the expense of the American people.
Reply By katherineLikely katherineLikely | 11 months ago
90 cents a hour! wow that was good money for the 60's. When I graduated high school in 1967 I was earning 25 cents a hour. My mom when she worked for woolwoths in the 50's also earned .25 cents a hour. She got a pay hike to 50 cents a hour working for the court house clerk in the 60's........So you must have had some job to earn 90 cents a hour!
Reply By Keevin Keevin | 11 months ago
Where's your argument, you're saying the same thing I am? You sound shocked and surprised at the loss of public teachers, police, and firefighters because they are local and state funded. You left out funded by taxpayers. While politicians are laying off union and public workers they never cut their own pay or benefits to help ease the states' budgets. So how come over 300,000 have already been fired and mitt even said there are too many teachers now. republinos in several states are tightening the rules for abortion, trying to stop free birth control, and limiting funds for food stamps, unemployment and welfare checks. Also, republinos are trying to restrict voting rights. Look up the facts before creating your own. You do make one good and valid point. My first full time job was at a hospital making $285 a month taking home $245 after taxes and I was being called by realtors wanting me to buy a house. My furnished apartment was $1.00 per day and I was upset paying $31 instead of $30 for that "extra" day. The problem today is that wages haven't kept up with inflation for the lower and middle classes.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
Nope. Keevin. "You left out funded by taxpayers."???? Where do you think the States and Localities get the money?? The vast majority of funding comes form local taxes. This is not a plausible spin by you on what I wrote. And if you are talking about Federal "revenue sharing" then you missed the key points in my comments. Go back and read it again. Most of that come with strings attached and costs the States and Localities more than the get. One of the most egregious examples is education.

Besides, if the Federal government wasn't taxing the people so much to centrally plan everything, the states and localities would have plenty of resources to pay for local services. Those would be decided on by the people instead of DC bureaucrats. Central planning doesn't work well.

Sorry you didn't understand the comment. Ironically, you are supporting the transfer in wealth from ordinary Americans to the political class and who they actually represent: The elites, the super rich and the Wall Street bunch which is mostly made up of parasites

BTW, you give no "facts". Just super partisan rhetoric.
Posted By rgray222 rgray222 | 11 months ago
This is comparable to Hardee talking about Laurel or Frick making fun of Frack. These two gentlemen will go down as two of the most ineffective leaders the USA has ever had. Both put policies in place that slowed down the American Economy, both spoke of saving money but spent like people with an addiction, both said American's reputation would be restored around the world and it was exactly the opposite. These are both nice guys, would like to have them over for dinner and a drink but both are and were way over their heads in the job. Things changed very much for the better when Reagan took office and hopefully this will happen again when Romney takes office.
Reply By katherineLikely katherineLikely | 11 months ago
While I devalue Carters opinion I must take acception to what you say about Obama.

The peanut farmer had no guts to stand up to any of our foes and ou can not say that about our current President. Carter did not slow down the economy - he killed it. There is more respect around the world for Obama then there was ever for Carter.

I WOULD NOT WANT Carter FOR MY NEIGHBOR, I would have to help him to much - he is so needy. If Bush had not screwed things up so badly Obama could have done more. It is kinda like the rebound love - mostly it doesn't work, doesn't mean it can't.......... but each day is a struggle.

Romney will destroy our nation. He is for higher taxes for the poor and middle class's - but no new taxes for the rich. He wants to fire 1/2 of the nations teachers, fire men and police. He wants to abolish school lunches, welfare, food stamps and earned income credit. He wants to delte Medicare and cut back on the VA's health care for our broken and disabled vetrans.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
katherineLikely Tell you what; when you have been under fire and had a comrade in arms killed 5 feet away, you can tell me about war.

There are necessary wars. Wars of defense. And unnecessary wars. And then there are wars that make things worse. That's what we have now.
Reply By springton springton | 11 months ago
More rhetoric without substance. True, Carter didn't help matters. But he didn't kill the economy. He inherited a mess and didn't know how to fix it. BUT he didn't pay off corporate interests, bomb Innocent people and subvert the constitution.

Unfortunately Romney would likely do the same.
Reply By dbmyers dbmyers | 11 months ago
And much more so!
Reply By katherineLikely katherineLikely | 11 months ago
Springton - you don't read much do you. Everything I have said I have heard Romney say in speeches and in press releases. I was going to vote for old Mitt till I learn the substance he was made of and what he did to his dog.

No, Carter turned the other cheek, he allowed people in foreign countrys, our people to be slaughtered like a pig on the market block.

How do you know who he paid, does anyone really know? There are so many cover ups with every President that one does not have enough yard sticks to measure all of them.

If Carter didn't know how to fix the mess, he should never have run for the Presidency and once there he should have sought help. But to set in your rocker and do nothing is an insult to the American people.

What innocent people? There are innocent people in time of war? My boyfriend told me that in Vietnam they would strap a bomb to a child and send him over to the American soilder - those innocent people?

Are you talking about the innocent people who threw babies out of windows in Desert storm because they needed parts for themselves or gutting pregrant women because they wouldn't voluntarily give them sex - those innocent people?

Wake up war is hell.
Posted By ProfPeteB ProfPeteB | 11 months ago
Great Report. Obama is only known to those who pout aside MSM material. I voted for him and am more ashamed of that vote than any other I have ever cast. I read the NYT OPED by JC, great and heroic article. Knowing what we now do about Obama and his "Hit Lists", I will pray that the Former President's guardian angel watches over him God Bless Jimmy Carter, he unlike most of our governors, including that of Illinois, has courage and is blessed by God with honor!
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